Why aren't sailing instructors sailing?

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by evm1024

You will need to in many cases tow the boats out to the operating area, tow them back in,

Towing rather than sailing? I don't really understand this and fortunately I don't usually see it.

jet off to a boat that is in trouble or heading out of control out of the area etc. You will need to pull students back out of the water and in general be all places at once.

It is closer to herding cats.

...

The point is to show you just what a student in the water would be going through. Makes you hustle to get them out. You cannot do that if you are in a small sailboat too.

So the instructor should have a much faster sailing boat than the boats he is managing which is easy since these small dingys are not very fast.

If he also had an engine for emergencies like the hypothetical case of someone falling in 46 degree water or whatever, then fine. Mostly it would not be needed at all. I have never seen them sailing in the winter anyway.

I woke up the other day to a sailing dingy crashing into to my boat, I was anchored and
the kids managed to pin themselves to my boat. The instructor then came along side and was revving his engine to "push them" under my anchor chain to no success.

Meanwhile I am breathing his exhaust fumes inside my boat. So I went out and walked the sailing dingy down wind and away from my boat. It all could have been done by an instructor with a sailing boat and a completely different strategy.

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

At the local club in Cygnet, TAS, their insurance requires the RIB in attendance for the sailing classes, and a mother boat for the longer races.

Ann

This explains it: the real reason. The insurance also don't support dyneema standing rigging for cruising boats! They rather keep sending people new masts in remote islands.

So basically insurance people know the least but make the rules.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

I have visited many ports where clubs with small sailing boats often practice or race in the harbor. Usually the instructor is driving a powerboat, but a few times (less than 10% of the time) the instructor is also on a sailboat which seems to work out fine, and can show sailing techniques directly rather than yelling and blowing horns.

So, what kind of sailing instructor would use a powerboat? What kind of student would tolerate it?

Would you trust a dentist that has bad teeth?

What if you got a sail repaired and they used contact cement because it was easier than sewing?

A cook that won't eat their own food?

A farm where the owners have a separate garden for themselves but do not consume any of what they sell because of the chemicals they use.

Well...having spent some years as sailing & racing instructor od dinghies the answer is clear.
If you have a fleet of dinghies, spread about racing field, you want to be able to get fast to any boat you think need advice.
If you sail a dinghy yourself, you may talk only to the crew of your boat, no way to reach in time to another dinghy on the other side of the course. When coaching larger boats (with crews of 3 or 4) I tried to enlist instructors to go on these with the crew, but it can't be done with a fleet of e.g Lasers or 470ies.
There are also safety issues - explained already in a post above.

[FabioC]

In the case of dinghy sailing, it is simply impractical for the instructor to be sailing on one boat, unless it is an individual lesson. Even with a personal coach, most of the time the role of the coach is to observe you from a RIB and tell (yell or radio) you what you are doing right or wrong. It would be impractical to have the coach on the boat with you, since there is never room for an extra person on a dinghy, and even if there is, it changes the balance of the boat so dramatically that the lesson would be useless.

In the case of keelboat sailing, there is more of a case of an instructor aboard. She may actually perform maneuvers or steer the boat for illustration purposes, but the whole point of a sailing lesson is for you to practice, not for the instructor to show multiple times, so typically instructors are "observers" 90% of the time or more (often, 100% of the time, unless you explicitly ask them "to show you"). Some instructors even stay completely silent during a maneuver and only comment at the end of it. Personally, I prefer an instructor who is more "verbose" during a maneuver, but it is a matter of style, I can see the reasons why the instructor would not say anything.

[Shrew]

This is a completely ridiculous rant for the purposes of purity.

Consider this. There are children sailing. They get spreadout. Someone falls in. Are you going to rely on other children who also don't know how to sail to now perform M.O.B for real?

The instructor needs to be able to very quickly get to any student. Sailing on principle is not going to get it done.

Sometimes the wind dies and the entire string of kids needs to get towed back in.

Sometimes there is equipment malfunction and the kids need to get towed back in.

Sometimes a stiff wind will pick-up forcing a bunch of children to tack back in while parents are waiting at the dock to pick them up. Yep, sometimes they need to get towed back in.

Sometimes the kid just doesn't have the aptitude to sail in the conditions. Now what, leave him fending for himself while he figures it out? Nope, sometimes......you guessed it.....they have to be towed back in.

To put children spread out in open water and force the instructor/lifeguard to 'sail' around is borderline irresponsible.

Get off your high horse.

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

Towing rather than sailing? I don't really understand this and fortunately I don't usually see it.



So the instructor should have a much faster sailing boat than the boats he is managing which is easy since these small dingys are not very fast.

If he also had an engine for emergencies like the hypothetical case of someone falling in 46 degree water or whatever, then fine. Mostly it would not be needed at all. I have never seen them sailing in the winter anyway.

I woke up the other day to a sailing dingy crashing into to my boat, I was anchored and
the kids managed to pin themselves to my boat. The instructor then came along side and was revving his engine to "push them" under my anchor chain to no success.

Meanwhile I am breathing his exhaust fumes inside my boat. So I went out and walked the sailing dingy down wind and away from my boat. It all could have been done by an instructor with a sailing boat and a completely different strategy.




This explains it: the real reason. The insurance also don't support dyneema standing rigging for cruising boats! They rather keep sending people new masts in remote islands.

So basically insurance people know the least but make the rules.

Yawn....

So it appears really that you are just trolling.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Looks like you instructors have grown a bit thin skinned after being in charge of some newbie sailors for a brief period.

And don't forget the OP has sailed most of the way around the world on a boat he purchased for $1,000.

What's the cost of a sailing course?

I taught myself and I'm guessing that possibly the OP did also

What's your point (s)?

Any attempt to educate new sailors is a waste of money?

Ignorance is bliss?

If your boat costs less that $1k, you have that right to criticise mostly volunteer certified teachers in basic sailing?

All above seems pretty rude and uninformed to me

Originally Posted by StuM

I's actually 5 stupid questions following an ill-informed rant.

[emoji106]

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Yawn....

So it appears really that you are just trolling.

+1
The OP is indeed trolling. Towing is part of dinghy sailing. If you are trying to learn how to push a dinghy and yourself to the respective limits, you are bound to crash and/or break something, dinghies are fragile and temperamental and there is no other way to learn them, no matter how good you are (in fact, the best dinghy sailors use chase boats all the time).

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by 1affiah

Those that can, do...Those that can't, teach!

And....Those that can't even teach.....Legislate !

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Looks like you instructors have grown a bit thin skinned after being in charge of some newbie sailors for a brief period.

And don't forget the OP has sailed most of the way around the world on a boat he purchased for $1,000. Doesn't mean much of anything in terms of being a good sailor. I know of several cruisers who bought a boat with no prior skill and did around the world without any formal training. Most readily admit, they aren't nearly as skilled when it comes to maximizing performance.

What's the cost of a sailing course? All the more reason to pay for a power boat. If I paid a lot of money for my kid to take a 2 hr training every Saturday and the trainer wasted an hour tacking over to the kids boat when they could have been there in 2 minutes with a power boat,while the kids are floundering...that's a lot of wasted training time.

I taught myself and I'm guessing that possibly the OP did also

That's fine if you are self taught but it's not relevant to a formal training program. If you waste half the day figuring out how to do a simple tack or you break something on a crash jibe, that's your problem. If that happens under paid training (or worse someone is hurt because you were half a mile away tacking towards them), that's bad training and at least partially negligence.

[grantmc]

Gosh this forum can get nasty and distasteful at times. I can't believe that trying to teach sailing can attract such a beat up. For those that are criticising, put your hand up and come out and help us do it. Maybe demonstrate how it can be done better, fantastic.

So OP you had a couple of learners run in to your anchored boat and the instructor struggled to free it. And eventually you actually gave them a hand. Well wasn't that good of you. But then you have to start dissing the poor buggers that are out there week after week. Take a chill pill and if you've nothing nice to say, then say nothing.

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by 1affiah

Those that can, do...Those that can't, teach!

And those that can't teach work for the government.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Flagman101

1---What does that prove? That he is a good sailor ( Probably ) That he is not a millionaire ( Maybe ). That he knows how to teach ( Not sure ). That he knows how schools run sailing classes? ( Seems he does not )

2----Depends on the sailing course. What course are you asking about?

What's the cost to learn to sail in a formal class. Point is he sailed most of the world on a boat he bought for $1,000 and trained himself to sail like I did

I traded my $45.00 Mauser 7mm deer rifle in 1980 for a dinghy sailor and learned on that. Then got further training on Hobie 16's which I immediately raced after purchase. Then a second newer one

Then Nacras (2 new ones) which I raced on the Gulf Coast against some pretty darn good sailors

It's all about the mental makeup of the student. Some learn best alone while others want to be shown

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

What's your point?

Any attempt to educate new sailors is a waste of money

Of course not.

Where did you get such an idea?

It just that for many of us it's much easier to learn to sail in one afternoon with a simple chart.

This is the chart I learned with ………

https://www.google.com/search?q=sail...=1559170734107

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

That's fine if you are self taught but it's not relevant to a formal training program. If you waste half the day figuring out how to do a simple tack or you break something on a crash jibe, that's your problem. If that happens under paid training (or worse someone is hurt because you were half a mile away tacking towards them), that's bad training and at least partially negligence.

Nice advice but you have to use a bit of common sense when training yourself.

Number one is don't go out when a crash jibe can break something.

I trained on my first sail in winds that peaked at 4-5 knots.

Are we learning yet?

Plus training yourself is free which allows more money for a boat purchases.

I learned boating with the first boat I bought for $300.00 at age 16. (My training was some kid told me about the 3 r's and I knew how to get a lawn mower running)

Actually it was a boat, motor, and trailer for $300 I bought from a little town on seaside (Wachapreague, VA). One of the rusted trailer rims disintegrated on the way to the ramp which was on the bayside after purchase

I used the boat in the bay and on the ocean side/seaside. We came back in from the ocean thru inlets by riding a nice wave. You had to choose your wave like a surfer to get thru but at age 16-18 you are fearless so it wasn't a big deal to sacrifice your $300.00 boat to prove to your friends in their junk boats you could get thru even when the waves were breaking hard

[JPA Cate]

They rather keep sending people new masts in remote islands.

I would imagine that this is pretty rare, although I do know of one case where this was done, in the Falkland Is., although not paid for by the insurance company.

It is appropriate for us all to remember, the insurance company may or may not be here to help us; they are here to make money for the stockholders.

As to the allegation relative to using Dyneema (or similar) rigging, most likely it depends on the insurance company in question.


Ann