USCG Six Pack license sea time fraud

[MicHughV]

just remember that when you get your " captain's" license, you will be the one, that is "assumed" to have the requisite knowledge should someone get hurt on your vessel....a good insurance policy is a necessity....

[svsonora]

My application is pending for a Master100T (though I'm probably going to end up with 50T). I just got my medical certificate issued, so my fingers are crossed for the credentials to get here in a few weeks.

Like others have said, its about the quality of the time you've spent on a boat. Although it was difficult for me to meet all the requirements, I'm not against making it difficult to meet professional standards for any industry.

If you actually paid attention and studied the material hard, the exam prep will actually teach you quite a few things. I look at the water a bit differently now, and found myself holding myself to a higher standard. Its partly what you make of it, but also remember that you're also held to a higher legal standard too, so behave accordingly.

I did it for a business idea but it should open up some job opportunities too, not as good as a GRT200T license, but still.

Go ahead and get sailing and towing endorsements. Its not *that* much more work. Master100T upgrade is probably 80% additional workload to the base OUPV, but I think it is worth it.

Don't forget drug test, TWIC card, First Aid and CPR certs. You don't want to have everything else ready and have one silly thing you forgot, especially with the pandemic related delays at the USCG NMC.

[jgrumby]

I thought the exams were tough and some of the questions are quite tricky. It really does take some preparation and the 90% pass rate for Rules of Road means you really can't be making mistakes in that section. With intensive coursework - I signed up for the two week intensive with Sailing & Steamship (https://occsailing.com/classes-and-programs/uscg-approved-courses/us-coast-guard-license-exam-prep-course/) and still needed to practice like crazy using using USCG Exam Prep's license exam question database (https://uscgexamprep.com), which fortunately was free. Hats off to anyone passing first time!

[Uricanejack]

I doubt if its unique to any particular system.
When qualifying time is hard to come by. Temptation exists to fudge it a bit. Some people will. Most do not.

Two sources of sea time, I personally have doubts about on occasions, even when it has been, "Rubber Stamped. And a certificate issued.
Fishing Boat.
Yacht.
Particularly when owned by friend or family. Even more so when its own boat.
I have hired and trained lots of people who are ex fishermen. I have also hired and trained people who have worked on yachts.

6 Pack or YM, I don't care which. I will hire you. But you start with a mop and a bucket. Your first day with the bucket is your first day of sea time.
Until you prove yourself.
You have to ears two eyes and only one mouth. If you use it to ask questions and listen with both ears. We might keep you around.

Fraud. I guess he didn't figure forging dollar bills was worth the risk, If your going to go with fraud might as well make it worth while and forge Hundred dollar Bills.

He forged or rather photocopied a relatives unlimited certificate. Doctored the Name and date.
Only got caught when he was asked for his CPE.
After all the usual excuses, Kids use about home work including the dog ate it.

Called TC and asked them to send us a copy. We were quite surprised to find out they had never heard of him.
Apart from being a fraud, He was a quite a good guy. Was even considering promoting him.

[StoneCrab]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

You can log sea time simply being a deckhand whose only responsibility is to untie the dock lines at one end of a run and tie them up again at the other end. If you don't have the interest, or the skipper doesn't want to teach/share/mentor then it is entirely possible to accrue sea time without knowing much about actually running a boat. This is a flaw in the system, there is no real "apprenticeship" with training requirements, and the testing system doesn't work to find out whether or not you actually know how to operate a boat.

Ironically, if you receive a 50 or 100 ton Masters Certificate, you are legally qualified to sell tickets, work in the galley and handle docklines. Without the additional STCW ratings you can't be an officer unless it is your own boat or Uncle Bob's.

Similarly, if you own your own boat and stay in the same waters, you can be on the water for years and not know how to navigate, use a radar or read a chart. Anchoring vs dropping the lunch hook can be a big deal for some and finding a fish for others.

Having the rating doesn't equate with having across the board knowledge or experience. It would be interesting if the USCG had similar requirements to the FAA for a pilot license and required everyone to get on a boat and demonstrate boat handling skills in a variety of conditions. It would probably make everyone better.

I like that there are standards. It generally gives you a framework and something to shoot for. I think the use of titles like "Captain" can get caught up in ego, although on a working ship, it defines the responsibility and relationships. I wonder how many use their license for a full time income. Not many, I suspect.

[Lihuedooley77]

With a long back ground of responsibilities, and following procedures, I followed all of that with my sea time in order to sit for my U.S.C.G Merchant Marine Officer's license.
Originally 100 ton. Had to renew every five years, on the 5 th issue, the U.S.C.G upgraded it to 500 tons near coastal. I did not ask or request that, they just did it.
Never even got close to skippering any vessel of that tonnage.

As to sea time: It took me five years to earn the 720 days of documented sea time in order to sit for my original license. I had worked as an instructor, first teaching basic sailing on 25 and 30 footers. The larger intermediate and advanced lessons on vessels up to 55 ft.

Also, taught coastal piloting and navigation, marine weather , in class rooms. Also took out charters, etc, etc. Deliveries were on my own, and not thru the sailing club.

Also lead flotillas ... Newport Beach to Catalina Island as our members had to have their sea time, and courses completed, and do the flotila training passage to Catalina in order to qualify to take our boats there on their own. They also had to have completed all of the sailing courses, and passed all of their check outs. And passed all of their written exams including coastal navigation.


for any of our vessels, Their check out sail on the water, included single handing and departing the dock and later after reefing, manuevering , trimming sails, etc, they had to dock under sail single handed.

My sea time was accurate and no B.S. as it was on the Sailing Clubs computers .
that all morphed into several decades of leading international sailing flotillas in
Tahiti , Tonga, Socal waters and off shore islands, the british virgin islands, the french west indies, and the windwards and grenadines. Plus the non revenue fun sailing vacations in Australia, Ireland and Greece,

Have I run into the bar banger , warf rats that faked their sea time, or just flat lied about their certificates issued by the U.S.C.G. Testing facility Long Beach ? You betcha, but, we did not have those types working for us.

You only need a U.S.C.G. Merchant marine captain license if you are working for hire. Some, with their own vessel, wish to study, and pass the test for their six pack. No more than six passengers. Good on them, That, requires 360 days documented sea time.

From hanging around marinas for lots of decades, it is obvious that most vessels sit in their docks with very little water passing under their keels. WAG is maybe the owners take them out 12 times a year. Maybe.

What was the outcome of the above : Nearly 40 years sailing and motor vessels, instructing, charters, deliveries, international sailing, wonderful great friends, marvelous adventures, and most important, my very special lady, and excellent sailor that I met 36 years ago who was one of my sailing students. she owned a crealock 37, that she also had on lease back with the sailing club.

To end this, I actually had two simultaneous careers, the sailing you just got briefed on...the other concurrent career was amazing as well. Commercial Pilot rating, flight intructor, charter pilot, corporate pilot and the last 17 years ( 2500 missions ) as an I.P ( instuctor pilot ) for Air Combat USA, ( formation, gunsite tracking, basic fighter maneuvers, and 6 full on five and six G dog fights.)

it has been one phenominal and rewarding and fun life style. But, fact is, qeezerdom has done crept up a bit, no more flying, but we are still bare boating, or will be once covid is no longer a factor.


We never made it to living aboard and long duration cruising. Hmmmm, maybe if there is life after this one.... ??

Point being, the sailing and power boating, and earning the U.S.C.G license, has been most rewarding. And we did all by following procedures .

[Cadence]

Isn't a 6 pack primarily so people can title themselves Capt..

[StoneCrab]

six pack ... sort of has a negative, irresponsible connotation?

[Lihuedooley77]

Actually, that might be some, but, for the puffed up, shoulder board set, I doubt most of them would actually put in the documented sea time , which takes effort.

Others who have smaller fishing, tour, white water rafting, coastal zodiac snorkeling tours in hawaii, or maybe florida. Also, small private charters for whale watching, fishing, or coastal sailing, or beginning sailing instruction like steve colgate.

Others may actually take pride in the efforts to gain the experience and the study it takes to pass the exams. Much of the test is 90% for to pass the various sections.

If I were to meet a skipper, who did own his own boat or worked for a small boat company, and did have a U.S.C.G lic., and actually put in the sea time, I would have plenty of respect for that person.
--------------------------.................................................. ............

No respect for the BS'ers.

Hanging at the dockside pubs in several different harbors and marinas, or near by, I run into the blow hards, and the non lic. skippers who go by Capt. so and so.

I just am known as Denny .

Lots of stories:

just three of them:

1. When working for the Newport Sailing Club in Lido Village, Newport Beach, our 30 some vessels were slipped in front of a very nice bar and restaurant.

This one fellow had a Pacific Sea Craft Flicka, maybe 23 ft.. This boulevard bosun called himself Capt. so and so. He had an add in the Pilot ( Local rag ) and he said he was capt. so and so, and could marry couples out on the waters of Newport Bay. Because he was a CAPTAIN. He was not.

Well, for those folks who fell for that one, which were several, you are not really married. Finally, he and his boat just disappeared, Probably sailed to another coastal harbor and started over again. no lic. of any kind, and fact is, I am a lic. capt, and not authorized to marry anybody at any time, ever.

# 2: Another fellow, here in Dana Point, had a 30 ft sailing vessel. He was well known as Capt. so and so, And was illegally running charters, even working for one of the boat brokers who set him up with customers. His boat was in disrepair and eventually the tranny gave out, he could not afford to fix it. He also disappeared. No Lic, and he said he did not need one. Yes you do if working for hire or compenation.

# 3: .Another ace, this was when we lived on Kauai, this guy was always touting his seamanship abilities. He was a boat mech. He took one of his clients sailing vessels from Nawiliwili up to Hanalei Bay, came back at night, saw a light.

His buddy was passed out below. Super skipper headed for the light and put the vessel up on the reef and rocks and it washed up on the beach totally destroyed..

He said he saw an orange light....thar aint no orange nav lights. Turned out to be a light on a beach side bar. No lic., no sailing experience, no nothing.
He left the island, never to be seen again.

I have no problem with those who put in the sea time, and the study, and sit for and pass the test for a six pack. Those people are usually doing that because the are skippering smaller vessels with no more than six passengers or they want the acomplishment of putting in the time, and getting that six pack

Denny.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

It is very difficult to acquire sufficient sea time on the Great Lakes and other northern places.

I agree. I live in Michigan. Boating season is really mid-June to mid-September, about 90-days. If you go boating only two days a week, that means about maybe 25 days a year. So in five years you might have 125-days. To get 360-days in five year means 72-days per year, or about six-days-a-week in our short boating season. I like boating, but I can't do it six-days-a-week every summer.

About 15 years ago, when I figured I had a lifetime total of 360-days on the water, I embarked on getting a merchant mariner credential, aiming for a Master 50-ton Inland. I took a licensing course; the course was approved to administer its own exam. I took a supplement course on first-aid and CPR. I took a drug test. I passed all tests.

At about the time I was going to submit all my credentials to the USCG, the TCIW card and mandatory fingerprinting were implemented. About then I realized that I was just going to be spending more money to comply. If I got the credential, all I would do with it would be to frame it. I already had a job I liked very much that was not in the merchant marine. To get 360 days of sea time in five years would be impossible for me, and I realized I could not renew the license. (I was not aware of the open-book test option.) I decided to not apply.

I learned a lot in studying for the exams. But being a recreational boater I was not likely ever going to advance in rating or even be able to renew my license, so I abandoned the project.

On-the-water experience is the best teacher. I tell people, "Every time I go boating I learn something new."

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Isn't a 6 pack primarily so people can title themselves Capt..

It is a legal requirement to have to take paying customers fishing.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Isn't a 6 pack primarily so people can title themselves Capt..

Captain is a curtesy title given to any person in charge of a vessel, plane, etc.

A person who has Merchant Mariner Credentials, and is in charge has an official title of "Master" or "Ships Master."

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

Captain is a curtesy title given to any person in charge of a vessel, plane, etc.

A person who has Merchant Mariner Credentials, and is in charge has an official title of "Master" or "Ships Master."

I was somewhat kidding. But I have know people to title themselves Capt. on an E-mail address. I think it was an ego thing.