RYA Practicals/Certification Yachtmaster vs Coastal Skipper

[unlimited]

Hi all,


I have an upcoming opportunity to go to the UK for a work trip and am thinking of tagging on a "holiday" to go thru an RYA practical course and obtain a certification. I am not sure which practical or certification would be best for my objective so I am asking for some thoughts:


Objective
Obtain practical experience and a certification that would allow me to:

• Reduce insurance costs (future boat may be registered outside of US. Target value $60k-$180k USD)
• Charter boats in Caribbean/EU/Asia (altho I don't plan on chartering; I plan on buying in ~5 years)
• I don't plan on sailing commercially, altho it would be nice if the cert can double (or be easily upgraded) so that I can run a little charter operation or be delivery crew for 60+ ft monos/cats (partial retirement/supplemental income plan)

Experience

• Crew for Atlantic crossing on a 42' mono. 1960nm. 13 days.
• Delivery crew for 43' mono. 536nm (Washington DC to Connecticut through C&D Canal & NJ Coast). 8 days. Tidal waters.
• Recreational crew for 30' cat. 200nm (St. Lucia to St. Vincent over 2 weeks).
• Day sailing on 40' mono in Chesapeake Bay.
• Not much experience in the "technicalities" of cruising like being able to read GRIB files, handling VHF. I have been exposed to calculating tides and know how to use a chartplotter, etc.

I see on sailing schools like https://www.boss-sail.co.uk/ there are RYA Coastal Skipper (Practical) & RYA Yachtmaster Coastal courses. Both require 2 days as a skipper though - does taking over the helm count? (like taking over the helm thru C&D Canal while everyone sleeps) Please give me some thoughts as to which course/cert/etc you think would be best!


Many thanks!

[s/v Moondancer]

I took the Yachtmaster and Yachtmaster Ocean courses and exams at BOSS, they are a very good outfit.

The Solent is a good place to take the courses, tidal with lots of boat traffic and aids to navigation.

Your sea time is probably sufficient to take the Coastal Skipper exam but there is no audit system so nobody will check what you claim. Your Atlantic crossing will be far more than anybody else's experience on the course.

[unlimited]

Your Atlantic crossing will be far more than anybody else's experience on the course.

It was indeed a good experience but I'm not sure how much it'd contribute to the overall exam/course? We were sea sick for 80% of the time (and our only head broke, roller furling line broke, etc). Didn't learn much about weather planning since we just followed PredictWind.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by unlimited

It was indeed a good experience but I'm not sure how much it'd contribute to the overall exam/course? We were sea sick for 80% of the time (and our only head broke, roller furling line broke, etc). Didn't learn much about weather planning since we just followed PredictWind.

You should be fine if you take the Coastal Skipper course for everything except the running a charter business for which you'd need a Commercial Endorsement on top no matter which of the courses you take from Coastal to Ocean..
For crewing a Day Skipper would be perfectly adequate and also for your own boat anywhere.. Insurance across Oceans is getting harder to get every year with more and more conditions/restrictions every year.
A Coastal Skipper gives you a ticket for boats up to 65ft and 80gt..
You can do the Theory for C/S online.
As for weather planning.. get a good book on weather systems and learn to recognise cloud formations and what they mean.. realistically one can only plan for 48 to 72hrs ahead anyway.

[Sailer_Med]

I found the RYA courses to be valuable. I took Coastal Skipper, the practical is the same as Yacht Master Coastal and Ocean, the entry experience requirements do differ though.

The practical instruction is 5 days on the boat with an instructor and some other students. For Coastal Skipper there is no comprehensive test on the boat the instructor issues you a pass/fail. For Yachtmaster there is a 48 hour (continuous) comprehensive practical exam by a RYA examiner on the boat.

The theory courses are the same for all Coastal Skipper and YM.

[Uricanejack]

According to RYA website.
Options are now.
Competent crew,
DaySkipper.
Yachtmaster Coastal.
Yachtmaster Offshore.
Yachtmaster Ocean.

If you have the mileage a pre course study why not go for the Yachtmaster Offshore.

It will probably be an interesting enjoyable week sailing either way. The difference will depend on how much prep you are interested in doing ahead of time.
There are multiple providers of the shore study programs, by book, on line or in a classroom.
Showing up without a shore prep course is theoretically ok. If you have a lot of experience and already know everything.

If you have a desire to sail in a commercial capacity, being American you will require an American certification, 6 pack ect. Even so knowledge gained will still be helpful.

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by unlimited

Hi all,


I have an upcoming opportunity to go to the UK for a work trip and am thinking of tagging on a "holiday" to go thru an RYA practical course and obtain a certification. I am not sure which practical or certification would be best for my objective so I am asking for some thoughts:


Objective
Obtain practical experience and a certification that would allow me to:

• Reduce insurance costs (future boat may be registered outside of US. Target value $60k-$180k USD)
• Charter boats in Caribbean/EU/Asia (altho I don't plan on chartering; I plan on buying in ~5 years)
• I don't plan on sailing commercially, altho it would be nice if the cert can double (or be easily upgraded) so that I can run a little charter operation or be delivery crew for 60+ ft monos/cats (partial retirement/supplemental income plan)

Experience

• Crew for Atlantic crossing on a 42' mono. 1960nm. 13 days.
• Delivery crew for 43' mono. 536nm (Washington DC to Connecticut through C&D Canal & NJ Coast). 8 days. Tidal waters.
• Recreational crew for 30' cat. 200nm (St. Lucia to St. Vincent over 2 weeks).
• Day sailing on 40' mono in Chesapeake Bay.
• Not much experience in the "technicalities" of cruising like being able to read GRIB files, handling VHF. I have been exposed to calculating tides and know how to use a chartplotter, etc.

I see on sailing schools like https://www.boss-sail.co.uk/ there are RYA Coastal Skipper (Practical) & RYA Yachtmaster Coastal courses. Both require 2 days as a skipper though - does taking over the helm count? (like taking over the helm thru C&D Canal while everyone sleeps) Please give me some thoughts as to which course/cert/etc you think would be best!


Many thanks!

A commercial endorsement only applies to Yachtmaster Offshore or Ocean. You also need to pass a medical check, have a current first aid certificate and meet some other requirements.
Looking at your CV, I suggest that you’re not yet ready for Yachtmaster Offshore.
This is based on your statements around never actually being a skipper (and no, helming doesn’t count!), rarely/never used a VHF, “being exposed” to calculating tides, etc
All of those should be second nature for a Yachtmaster Offshore.

I would suggest Day Skipper or Coastal Skipper.
Either of those will allow you to get an ICC which is required for chartering in many countries.

[unlimited]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

A commercial endorsement only applies to Yachtmaster Offshore or Ocean. You also need to pass a medical check, have a current first aid certificate and meet some other requirements.
Looking at your CV, I suggest that you’re not yet ready for Yachtmaster Offshore.
This is based on your statements around never actually being a skipper (and no, helming doesn’t count!), rarely/never used a VHF, “being exposed” to calculating tides, etc
All of those should be second nature for a Yachtmaster Offshore.

I would suggest Day Skipper or Coastal Skipper.
Either of those will allow you to get an ICC which is required for chartering in many countries.

Thanks ChrisJHC. According to RYA, the following can receive a commercial endorsement:

• RYA Day Skipper practical course completion certificate supported by a Day Skipper shorebased course completion certificate. The Day Skipper shorebased course may be undertaken online or in the classroom. In either case, the exams must be invigilated.
• RYA Yachtmaster Coastal/Offshore/Ocean COC

It's rather interesting that the "RYA Coastal Skipper practical" is not listed as an option to be commercially endorsed, yet the RYA Day Skipper practical is...I wonder why.

[Pete7]

The Day Skipper cert would fit a cat 4 commercial vessel, so daylight hours only and 20 miles offshore etc. My rib was coded to level 4 and I did some part time commercial work with it when not diving. However, I had my advanced power boat ticket commercially endorsed rather than my DS or CS tickets.

The CS practical is a course rather than formal assessment. Assessment is similar to the RYA YM but requires less experience and a shorter assessment. Presumably if the CS assessment is passed then its this that is endorsed, rather than just the practical certificate.

Pete

[muttnik]

The OP has been pretty clear on experience: a healthy amount of crewing but no skippering. The coastal skipper course assumes you're already beyond dayskipper in knowledge and experience. Trying to bluff your way onto it without the prerequisites is a waste of your time and money and unfair on the instructor and other students.

The right course here is day skipper. This is all you need for most charters in Europe (I've seen requirements for additional experience or yachtmaster coastal in some"challenging" areas) and before anyone says "ICC":
* I don't know anyone who has been turned down for having rya dayskipper but no icc
* If you need it, the RYA will issue you an ICC if you have dayskipper (unless I'm mistaken here, because the USA is not a signatory to UN resolution 40, the RYA can issue these to a US national)

Dayskipper has a theory part which you're assumed to know before starting the practical part. Some sailing schools will do both in a combined 10+ day course but if you have limited time on your work trip, do the theory as an online course beforehand. There are multiple providers and a bunch of threads on the uk ybw.com forum (search for: online theory site:ybw.com). Note that dayskipper is about teaching you how to skipper a boat not how to sail. Depending on knowledge of sail trim etc., some dinghy sailing beforehand, or paying particular attention to sail handling while crewing for others might be beneficial, although people do often do day skipper with shaky sailing skills.

Unlike the US, you need a licence to operate a VHF in the UK. How best to approach this as a US sailor is something I'm not best placed to comment on: Do a short course in the US and apply for an FCC licence? Do the RYA course (paying particular attention to the difference between US and "International" operation) and later apply for an FCC licence?

If you're coming all the way to the UK, do any course in the Solent. Everyone has their favourite sailing areas but the Solent has every technical challenge and is probably the yachtiest place on earth (outside of the vendee ;-).

Note that while my experience is well over a decade out of date (so may now be a complete mis-representation), BOSS, while in a great location, didn't tend to offer a luxury experience: old boats, students packed in, "budget" food. If you're after a more luxury experience you may want to check how many punters a school limits their courses to and if you'll get your own cabin. Do bear in mind when getting recommendations that the most important part of any course is the instructor, and you can't guarantee having the same instructor the person who gave you the recommendation had.

[boatman61]

Regarding the VHF training course you can do it online these days.. https://www.rya.org.uk/training/cour...-and-Exam-SRCC

[muttnik]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Regarding the VHF training course you can do it online these days[/url]

Sure and if “RYA” that would be a great route but the question is whether the OP as (presumably) a US citizen would be best off doing a US-based course and then getting a licence (or rather “license”) from the FCC rather than a uk course.

[boatman61]

Seeing as it's on the rya.org site pretty sure it's RYA and, if he's going to (presumably) get a Day/Coastal Skipper course why not tie the two together.
Its not hard and there's no practical as such and it's valid world wide.
But hey... his choice

[YachtBoyRMK]

I did my RYA Day Skipper in 1995, my RYA Yachtmaster in 2001 and some specialist courses all with BOSS – I found them to be a really good training organisation. Their location in Hamble is also an easy drive/train from London and also at the south end of Southampton Water (so you’re not spending a hour just getting to the mouth of the Solent once aboard).

I’d be a proponent of going with RYA qualifications; they are recognised worldwide. Brits are quick to espouse many of their organisations are world class (most claims are rubbish w/ examples such as our CAA, BPA, etc); however the RYA is really good.

I remember my examiner saying their mental “rules of thumb” on practical courses were:

1) Day Skipper – I’d trust this person with my personal boat to sail around the Solent

2) Coastal Skipper - I’d trust this person with my personal boat to sail to France

3) Yachtmaster - - I’d trust this person with my personal boat to sail to France with my wife and children aboard

[muttnik]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Seeing as it's on the rya.org site pretty sure it's RYA

By "If RYA" I meant "if the OP chooses the RYA course". There may be good reason not to: as well as national variations in VHF usage (channel use at least that we're made aware of in UK courses) there may be a question of validity. I have no knowledge here but this post at least suggests that some countries care about a radio operator's licence being from the holder's home country so long term the OP may need to apply for an FCC licence anyway.

Originally Posted by YachtBoyRMK

Their location in Hamble is also an easy drive/train from London

Having walked the 3km between hamble station and hamble point carrying a kit bag in the rain rather too many times I'll say that it's not the most conveniently located by rail and that southern bit of school lane is hardly pedestrian friendly (especially at night), though I'd probably take it over the walk down to Mercury (Hamble School of yachting being another popular school for the OP to consider)