Newby about to plunge into the deep end. Help.

[Rob_R]

Good afternoon everybody. I apologize if I'm dumping this thread in the wrong forum.

Im looking for a lot of advice and hoping to get some guidance and not to much of (you're a dumb@ss) statement.

BLUF: Insurance for an extremely low time Newby sailor. Boat purchase do's and dont's.

So I've been saving up for 6 years and am ready to purchase a 38-42 foot sailboat. Think something like beneteau 39.9 circa 2005 thru 2013. Time frame of July thru Aug 2021.

I'll be sailing her single handedly in the Caribbean initially. I have not much more then my ASA 101 certificate and thats about it. And this is where most people are probably thinking..dumb@ss newbie.

My plan is to hire a captain/instructor who will teach me on my boat before I set off on my journey. Question is this: which insurance company is likely to accept this arrangement for the area i want to sail?

Boat purchase: go through a broker or deal directly with the owner? Costs of a surveyor/inspector? Best areas in the u.s. to purchase and/or dock while getting trained up.

Anything that I might be forgetting for initial purchase and insurance?

Rob

[HeinSdL]

Hello Rob, welcome to CF.

You asked about insurance. I don't know that much about how this works in the US, my experience in Europe is that I simply took out a policy and I don't actually recall ever having been asked about my level of competence. So I am always a little taken aback when one of the main concerns listed on CF regarding buying a boat is the ability to get insurance. But no doubt this is a big thing in the US. FWIW, you may want to ask your question to Pantaenius who also have a US presence. I found them pretty easy going here, I'm sure they can give you some idea of what is possible.

Having said that, I don't actually believe that my insurance company is overly concerned about my level of competence. The insurance is not cheap so the boat is covered (also from the insurance co's point of view) and the biggest loss I face is the loss of life, which is a much bigger consideration for a sailor, especially when single handing and when being rather new to sailing.

So although it was not part of your opening question, it is the/your level of competence where I would reflect a bit harder. Hiring a skipper for a while will not prepare you for a safe single handed Caribbean experience. For sure the various manoeuvres can be picked up in this way, but to become a proficient sailor requires a bit more of an intense experience. In fact, sailing a yacht is pretty easy under most circumstances but when conditions deteriorate it becomes far more challenging, requiring a good feel for how a sailing yacht behaves (otherwise things start to break). And so I advise, as always, to spend a good amount of time (say half a season worth of weekends) in eg a Laser which will let you know exactly and in real time when you do something wrong. And you learn very quickly. The cost of doing this (both in money and time) will be recovered later with fewer breakages leading to expenses and time lost due to waiting on repairs.

[DefinitelyMe]

Can't really comment on the purchase as I've never bought a boat through a broker in the US. Bought two privately. Went smoothly.

Seems like a lot of your concerns are about insurance. Just don't get any, then the problem goes away. Or purchase it on an as-needed basis if you use marinas. It is not required for cruising the Caribbean.

[Pete7]

Rob, you might want to do an advanced search on CF for "insurance" as things have changed for folk in the Caribbean lately after the insurance market caught a cold with recent hurricanes over the past 5 years or so.

Pete

[ol1970]

Go through a broker, get a survey, especially being a newbie they’ll be worth every penny it might cost you, most likely they’ll save you much heartache. The broker can also point you in the right direction on insurance.

I was at the survey stage on a small cat in the BVI’s, the starboard engine essentially blew up on the sea trial putting it through its paces. Bullet dodged!

[mikecambrai]

Getting insurance is not going to help you sail your yacht. you need to assess what skills you need for your journey ad yacht and start your training before you even think about buying a yacht.
You say that you have a 101 certificate of which I have no knowledge. In the UK we follow courses run by the RYA details of which you will find on the internet. The principle of training is to balance theoretical knowledge alongside practical knowledge. Buy a dinghy first and learn to sail that. Because dinghies are very responsive they enable you to get a feel for how to sail much quicker than on a larger sailing yacht. Then you can go on a training course and apply what you have read about navigation, rope handling, anchoring, watchkeeping, mooring up etc.etc..
You can learn a lot from reading and then you need to practice what you have read.

Once you have a set of skills you can then purchase your yacht, get your insurance, and go through the same learning process to get familiar with your particular yacht. Learning to sail is a lifelong journey and after some 60 years I am still learning something new every day!

[sail sfbay]

Rob, welcome to the forum!! I will offer my two cents below.

Boat purchase do's and dont's ..........buy your last boat first. That will save you a lot money.

Question is this: which insurance company is likely to accept this arrangement for the area i want to sail? Just about any of the major insurers..........BoatUS, Chubb, Markel, etc.

Boat purchase: go through a broker or deal directly with the owner? Either way works......I have always purchased through a broker since they have you the largest inventory and selection of boats to purchase.

Costs of a surveyor/inspector? Depends on the marine surveyor. Just purchased a 44 ft powerboat and the marine survey cost $21/ft and 2 years bought a Hunter 46 and that marine survey (different surveyor) cost $26/ft. Don't forget about a rigging and engine survey.

Best areas in the u.s. to purchase and/or dock while getting trained up. I am partial to the San Francisco Bay due to the variety of wind conditions and you can sail year round but I am sure any coastal area would be fine.

Anything that I might be forgetting for initial purchase and insurance? Plan to have a reserve budget for recommended survey repairs, upgrades, bottom paint (many used boats require this initial $5,000 cost), berthing/mooring, and recurring maintenance (bottom cleaning and zinc replacement, fiberglass waxing, stainless steel polishing, engine fluids and filter change, bottom painting, winch servicing).

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Hi Rob,

You've gotten some advice from others on insurance, but with regard to experience, I'd strongly suggest you get more. If you can do ASA103/104, great, if not, see if you can crew for someone at a local yacht club. I realize these things are problematic with COVID restrictions, but the local ASA affiliate here is doing classes with masks. Sailing a lot on a smaller boat, like a Laser or Colgate 28 or similar would be helpful because you learn to read the wind with those boats, and the tiller gives you immediate feedback. Not sure where your starting point is, but after doing a lot of local sailing in your area, you can gain a good bit of experience sailing in coastal waters as you move your boat south to position yourself to cross to the Bahamas. And by the way, do a lot of reading about weather windows and the Gulf Stream before you do that the first time.

Good luck!

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Rob_R

Good afternoon everybody. I apologize if I'm dumping this thread in the wrong forum.

Im looking for a lot of advice and hoping to get some guidance and not to much of (you're a dumb@ss) statement.

BLUF: Insurance for an extremely low time Newby sailor. Boat purchase do's and dont's.

So I've been saving up for 6 years and am ready to purchase a 38-42 foot sailboat. Think something like beneteau 39.9 circa 2005 thru 2013. Time frame of July thru Aug 2021.

I'll be sailing her single handedly in the Caribbean initially. I have not much more then my ASA 101 certificate and thats about it. And this is where most people are probably thinking..dumb@ss newbie.

My plan is to hire a captain/instructor who will teach me on my boat before I set off on my journey. Question is this: which insurance company is likely to accept this arrangement for the area i want to sail?

Boat purchase: go through a broker or deal directly with the owner? Costs of a surveyor/inspector? Best areas in the u.s. to purchase and/or dock while getting trained up.

Anything that I might be forgetting for initial purchase and insurance?

Rob

If you're a new member and haven't been lurking here for awhile. I'll assume you haven't seen Auspicious' posts. He's a CF member located in the Chesapeake bay area who does surveys. deliveries and training for new boat buyers. I've never met this guy personally but have seen some of his videos. Were I on the East Coast in your position, I'd definitely contact him. You only really need insurance for Marinas or if your boat is financed. For Marinas, a basic liability policy will work (much cheaper than full coverage). I am a true believer in the theory that your first boat should be your last as it is much more cost efficient this way than moving up from smaller boats while upgrading them along the way. All boats will have things they need fixed or things you'd like to add but you never see the return on these items as you move up in size. That and the fact that it can take awhile to actually sell that interim boat before you can move up, makes getting the one you want more sensible in the first place. The Bene's are not the first choice for a world cruiser but are fitted out comfortably and would be just fine for cruising the Caribbean - just make sure you know your boat before striking out on your own. Having a second party onboard would be inherently safer.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

If you're a new member and haven't been lurking here for awhile. I'll assume you haven't seen Auspicious' posts. He's a CF member located in the Chesapeake bay area who does surveys. deliveries and training for new boat buyers. I've never met this guy personally but have seen some of his videos. Were I on the East Coast in your position, I'd definitely contact him. You only really need insurance for Marinas or if your boat is financed. For Marinas, a basic liability policy will work (much cheaper than full coverage). I am a true believer in the theory that your first boat should be your last as it is much more cost efficient this way than moving up from smaller boats while upgrading them along the way. All boats will have things they need fixed or things you'd like to add but you never see the return on these items as you move up in size. That and the fact that it can take awhile to actually sell that interim boat before you can move up, makes getting the one you want more sensible in the first place. The Bene's are not the first choice for a world cruiser but are fitted out comfortably and would be just fine for cruising the Caribbean - just make sure you know your boat before striking out on your own. Having a second party onboard would be inherently safer.

I also do not think getting a smaller keelboat before the larger and final keelboat is particularly efficient. But going much smaller into a dinghy I do think is a good idea: within a very short space of time and at a very low cost (in fact, a negligible cost compared to the overall project) it is possible to learn how to sail quite well.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

I also do not think getting a smaller keelboat before the larger and final keelboat is particularly efficient. But going much smaller into a dinghy I do think is a good idea: within a very short space of time and at a very low cost (in fact, a negligible cost compared to the overall project) it is possible to learn how to sail quite well.

Agreed. I learned on a windsurfer and while that does not inform one of the maintenance issues of a sail boat, it will teach you about the wind. And heck, you can store a small dinghy in your yard until it sells and it won't hold up your bigger plans going forward.

[OS2Dude]

I sail on inland lakes, so it is apples & oranges. However, BOATUS (Now GEICO) at the time offered a seamanship test and if you passed you got a discount. I would recommend only total loss and liability. We had a few losses (hit twice by two different boat while tied up in our slip.) and the insurance depreciated the claim to next to nothing. (80% is the limit) It was a damaged stainless steel railing and boarding ladder that will be around long after we're not, but hey, they were 35 years old...

While the Caribbean is a great place since you can almost always see your destination, storms up to hurricanes are not something a noob wants to tackle single handed. I'd recommend if possible to stay in near coastal US or so waters for a year and sail your buns off. Even now, find a yacht club or other sailing group and ask to crew. There's nothing like the real thing to teach you what to do. Also, seeing different boats will help you decide what you do and don't like in a boat before you buy one of your own. Even if you're not a racer, crew on a race boat a few times. They may be jerks, but they know every little trick there is.

Welcome to Sailing!

[goboatingnow]

Firstly my experience of European insurance is you always get asked about your experience and qualifications and includes Pantaineous , which are my current insurers.

I’d be very surprised based on your stated qualifications and desired sailing area if you’ll get a quote for insurance.

This is doubly the case if you intend to single hand. Most insurers won’t support it.

Starting of with a 40 footer is a big jump. Basic sailing you can pick up in a day , experience takes a lifetime

Why not crew first before thinking of buying.

[boatpoker]

Learning to sail is not that hard.
Learning the intricacies of cruising boats is a very steep learning curve.
I suggest you start here.

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

[jmschmidt]

Usually you need a survey to get insurance. You need insurance to get a loan. You need experience to get insurance for what you are contemplating. If you pay cash (no loan) and you don't care about your cash, you will still need at least liability coverage to enter marinas, mooring fields and the waters of foreign countries.

You do not need a broker who is also the lister of the boat for sale. He is representing his commission and the seller, not you. Just like real estate, get and expert buyers' broker to represent you. If there is such a thing as a buyer's broker who is also a certified surveyor who's work is recognized by the insurance industry that would be the best situation.