“New” requirement for NZ Cat 1 certification

[fxykty]

Friends of ours with an early-2000s Hanse 371 monohull that has never gone offshore from NZ are getting their Cat 1 certification. Amongst a myriad other things, they are required to haul out and remove their keel and rudder for inspection. Given the age of the boat that’s perhaps a reasonable thing to do anyway, but it surely shows that Cat 1 is not cheap nor easy.

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by Murdina

...I have a 2008 FP cruising cat, built essentially for ocean passages. But through government legislation I estimate well over $100000 before she would meet CAT1 standards...

Whilst not questioning your cost estimate (I've not seen the boat) I can't accept that it's so high just because of 'government legislation'. If your FP catamaran's been poorly maintained/never updated since it was new 13 years ago, then I could understand how it might be possible that you could need to expend that sort of money to meet CAT1. But if that's the case, then you'd probably need to spend a large proportion of that $100k just to make it safe for coastal day/weekend sailing; you might consider a life raft, epirb, AIS, etc to be 'optional' for inshore sailing - I did - but they didn't cost me $100k to add, but having a sound hull, solid rig & sails and a reliable engine are nothing to do with 'government legislation' or indeed making ocean passages, your boat needs those just to go out around the bay.

Another likely area of cost to explain your estimate is perhaps the labour costs in undertaking your proposed refit? In which case you'd significantly reduce cost, whilst increasing your offshore safety in undertaking the work yourself; if/when things go mechanically awry offshore, waving a credit card at the problem will not fix it, but having the spare parts, tools and experience to repair it will.

You refer to the 30' UK flagged boats which set off and sail the world's oceans, that's what we did (albeit two of us on a 35 footer) and those boats are overwhelmingly well found - those that aren't don't get far enough to write books and make videos. I'm confident that on departure day, ours too would have achieved or at least been very close to achieving NZ's CAT1 certification and we spent far less than NZ$100k on it, including our purchase of the boat. So, why not sell your catamaran, foregoing it's bells and whistles and you'll likely raise more than enough to buy and fit out a solid 30-40' foot 1980s monohull and sail away on that?

[Boatguy30]

Now I know I need to get into the Cat 1 business!

Remove the keel AND rudder. How about start with some ultrasounds and go from there?

Require a provable alternative steering like the Pacific Cup.

I 100% guarantee there are 10x the psychological failure rescues than keels falling off!

[fxykty]

I was having drinks with a Cat 1 inspector last night. He and his wife have completed two circumnavigations on their Cavalier 37 over the past twenty years, having returned to NZ 5 years ago and making yearly trips to the S Pac since, except these last two years. He’s picked up Cat 1 inspecting as a side line after retiring from boat building.

We chatted about our respective boats and how they handle the waters around NZ. He mentioned that as of this year they are no longer passing for Cat 1 boats with vertical forward facing windows, such as FP, Leopard, Lagoon, the new Outremers and many other cats and deck salon monos. To pass Cat 1 these boats must have external covers of plywood or similar, with frames or other positive locking mechanisms, and gaskets that will seal the cover.

That’s going to be a pain to implement.

[chrisr]

i can see a lot of people re-flagging their boats in eg australia

cheers,

[double u]

sooner or later the big step (that will end cruising as we know it) in regulations will be coming:
"organised ralleys only!"
(this will put an end to the continuing nightmare of the bureaucrats: the cruisers go where they want & no track of them is kept.)
Covid imho is accelerating development in this direction.

[jmh2002]

On the other hand (and just to throw another point of view into the mix), it's pretty standard on other types of regulated vessels to be required to carry 'storm shutters'.

From a seamanship point of view it makes complete sense for windows over a certain size.

But certainly it will be a pain to retrofit on exisiting boats.

Production boats with large windows should come with threaded mounting holes in the first place of course. That would be easy enough to include as part of the construction process.

[Boatwithnoname]

I am a kiwi guy with little sailing experience that is about to buy a bluewater cruiser. I am intending to sail Internationaly, but I want to do it safely.

I will not flag my boat in NZ, mostly because of the regulation in NZ. Even though I will be as safe as possible.

If the purpose of Cat1 cerification, and survival courses etc is safety. Why is it so hard to find the safety information. I mean the content of the course should be publically available.

The Cat1 requirements should be easy to find online, and backed up with supporting documentation, about why the parts/demands are needed. How to meet them etc.

Hell, maritime nz could publish a book. It would probably make more money and reach a wider audience.

My point is that when one wants to comply and be safe...even over kill safe, one finds the info hard to come by. They should fix that first.

Also, why not a self certification for compliance of private vessels?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Boatwithnoname

I am a kiwi guy with little sailing experience that is about to buy a bluewater cruiser. I am intending to sail Internationaly, but I want to do it safely.



I will not flag my boat in NZ, mostly because of the regulation in NZ. Even though I will be as safe as possible.



If the purpose of Cat1 cerification, and survival courses etc is safety. Why is it so hard to find the safety information. I mean the content of the course should be publically available.



The Cat1 requirements should be easy to find online, and backed up with supporting documentation, about why the parts/demands are needed. How to meet them etc.



Hell, maritime nz could publish a book. It would probably make more money and reach a wider audience.



My point is that when one wants to comply and be safe...even over kill safe, one finds the info hard to come by. They should fix that first.



Also, why not a self certification for compliance of private vessels?

All this information is easily found online.

Take a look at Yachting NZ https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/racing/safety-regulations - it’s all there regarding cat 1 and the other certification levels.

Regarding the courses, take a look at https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/recrea...ning-providers. Even if you’re not required to take them they’re still good information.

Do remember that most countries that you register with have their own requirements for cruising yachts. Of course, if you’re actually a long way away from that country then they won’t be enforcing their regulations. Unless you register in the US - that Coast Guard gets around.

[Boatwithnoname]

Originally Posted by fxykty

All this information is easily found online.

Take a look at Yachting NZ https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/racing/safety-regulations - it’s all there regarding cat 1 and the other certification levels.

Regarding the courses, take a look at https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/recrea...ning-providers. Even if you’re not required to take them they’re still good information.

Do remember that most countries that you register with have their own requirements for cruising yachts. Of course, if you’re actually a long way away from that country then they won’t be enforcing their regulations. Unless you register in the US - that Coast Guard gets around.

Thats all just Yachting NZ racing stuff, and Cruisers need to try and filter the 95% racing stuff out. Easy to make a mistake.

Also, there were no links to course content, only links to course sign-up.

You missed my point.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Boatwithnoname

Thats all just Yachting NZ racing stuff, and Cruisers need to try and filter the 95% racing stuff out. Easy to make a mistake.

Also, there were no links to course content, only links to course sign-up.

You missed my point.

Live Free...
Fly to the UK and buy your boat there then sail the world..
Zero regulations and the last bastion of maritime freedom.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Boatwithnoname

Thats all just Yachting NZ racing stuff, and Cruisers need to try and filter the 95% racing stuff out. Easy to make a mistake.



Also, there were no links to course content, only links to course sign-up.



You missed my point.

Not easy to make a mistake unless you’re really trying - the regulations specifically say: “In determining the adequacy of the vessel, the Yacht Inspector … will use the Category 1 requirements set out in Part II of these regulations except in exceptional circumstances.” So you follow the same regulations as a Category 1 racer. Easy!

Go to the Coastguard Boating Education website and click through to Advanced Sea Survival. On that page click on the course prospectus. Is that not enough information about the course?

Same for Offshore Medic.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Not easy to make a mistake unless you’re really trying - the regulations specifically say: “In determining the adequacy of the vessel, the Yacht Inspector … will use the Category 1 requirements set out in Part II of these regulations except in exceptional circumstances.” So you follow the same regulations as a Category 1 racer. Easy!

Go to the Coastguard Boating Education website and click through to Advanced Sea Survival. On that page click on the course prospectus. Is that not enough information about the course?

Same for Offshore Medic.

Thats the problem, Cat 1 is designed for racing fleets. Its for the convenience of the search teams and about identifying the bodies they pick up.

Not designed for safety of cruisers and motor-sailers. No check on whether your fuel is clean or how good is your batteries charging system. Its a good check list but Skipper experience should be the overriding requirement and then the Skipper takes responsibility for seaworthiness instead some pen pusher.

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Thats the problem, Cat 1 is designed for racing fleets. Its for the convenience of the search teams and about identifying the bodies they pick up.

Not designed for safety of cruisers and motor-sailers. No check on whether your fuel is clean or how good is your batteries charging system. Its a good check list but Skipper experience should be the overriding requirement and then the Skipper takes responsibility for seaworthiness instead some pen pusher.

Slight clarification: Cat 1 is designed for the SAFETY of offshore racing fleets.
There is nothing in the requirements about racing. Those come in the Notice of Race or Sailing Instructions.

I’ve had the joy of getting a boat back up to Cat 1 after it had been allowed to regress. I can’t think of one item that I thought was not relevant. Most of the comments above are complaining about the number of certain items or the interpretation of what meets the requirement, not whether they are completely wrong.

If setting up your own boat for offshore use, the Cat 1 requirements are a great starting point.
If you don’t have to comply, you can choose to vary the requirements but they’re a great place to start.

[Pacific Lycia]

Hello Everyone

Does anyone know if Australia has a similar regulation to Cat 1? or is it just a border clearance concerning passports and reviewing boat ownership and flag registrations etc? Cheers