Liveaboard Sailing Schools

[John_Trusty]

Originally Posted by MikeJulieStL

This is the exact question I have!

Looked at some of schools like Blue Water, Off Shore and Island-Dreamer but aside from a few Google reviews there isn’t much information from anyone other than the proprietors. ANY help, words of wisdom, personal recommendations etc would be greatly appreciated.

You bring up an excellent point - There are not many reviews for these schools. I can find dozens of on-line reviews for any restaurant before I invest $10, but what is there available for dropping two thousand (and a week's vacation) on a school? TripAdvisor and Google have very few, even for the big schools. I think that ASA should be more transparent with their reviews. Even if they don't post the negative ones, they could at least post their top-rated schools or instructors list. Some schools brag about their instructors getting Outstanding Instructor awards, but there isn't even a way to confirm those.

[Greenhand]

Originally Posted by MikeJulieStL

This is the exact question I have!

We are still 12 years from retirement but want to begin our spin up for our move to Florida and catamaran cruising in the Caribbean. Once we get our certs we can also begin chartering and building up some hours rather than throwing our money away on Beaches vacations. ;-) The live aboard 7-10 day classes seem like they would be the best fit for us and we would like to combine our vacation with a 101,103,104 certification. One complicating factor is the 11 and 14 year old we would need to bring with us - understanding that this isn’t a real vacation and that they will need to "shut up and color" until we are done for the day. Some charge full price for the kids, others don’t.

Is there a better part of Florida to take courses? We were thinking Miami area as it gets us closer to the Bahamas and that could be part of the trip - but if the winds are better elsewhere or another school is just better then we are open to it. June or July 2016 is our target timeframe.

Looked at some of schools like Blue Water, Off Shore and Island-Dreamer but aside from a few Google reviews there isn’t much information from anyone other than the proprietors. ANY help, words of wisdom, personal recommendations etc would be greatly appreciated.

These courses often involve 6-8 hours of instruction a day, plus studying at night. Why take the kids along if they aren't going to be involved?

You need a school that has a family package and experience in getting your kids involved in the process.

You may even consider doing the keelboat course with your kids locally, then asking whether they would rather learn more or be shipped off to Grandma's/camp while you go off and learn more.

This is kind of old, but Practical Sailor has an article on choosing schools: Practical Sailor Looks at Sailing Schools - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article

[LTDsailing]

Hey MikeJulieStl - we would love to help you with your live aboard Cruise and Learn course. We do offer a discount for kids on board and would give you a discount for booking a group of four together also! Check out our website and let me know if you have any questions.

[LTDsailing]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

You bring up an excellent point - There are not many reviews for these schools. I can find dozens of on-line reviews for any restaurant before I invest $10, but what is there available for dropping two thousand (and a week's vacation) on a school? TripAdvisor and Google have very few, even for the big schools. I think that ASA should be more transparent with their reviews. Even if they don't post the negative ones, they could at least post their top-rated schools or instructors list. Some schools brag about their instructors getting Outstanding Instructor awards, but there isn't even a way to confirm those.

As a school owner I can tell you that it is very hard to get your sailing school listed on Trip Advisor. They only accept Restaurants, Hotels and Activities - but an activity can't last more than 24 hours... What is a live aboard sailing school to do? We offer day trips too - but somehow TA didn't like that we also did live aboard trips.


I tried to get us listed and was rejected multiple times. We finally got on after I had our web site designer get after them. We work really hard to make sure our students have a great experience sailing with us - we want everyone to know about it!

Check out our Trip Advisor reviews here: LTD Sailing (St. George's, Grenada): Address, Phone Number, Boat Tour Reviews - TripAdvisor

[KeepInTune]

Originally Posted by MikeJulieStL

This is the exact question I have!

One complicating factor is the 11 and 14 year old we would need to bring with us - understanding that this isn’t a real vacation and that they will need to "shut up and color" until we are done for the day. Some charge full price for the kids, others don’t.
.

If it is a proper school with the typical ASA 101/103/104, a good instructor and program it is not a vacation or anything like it. Taking a 2 kids with you wouldn't work either unless they were committed to getting trained and certified. You'd also have to pay for them at full price. Also, the other thing is that if there are others on board, it's not fair to them to have two kids interfering with a full-blown training program. It just seems impractical to me. You might want to consider chartering for a week (with the family) and hiring a ASA certified instructor to spend the week with you. It would be expensive to pay for the instructor for what would essentially be a private lesson, though it still might be less than paying for 4 people in a standard program.

[denverd0n]

Have to agree with those who say this is not really the time to bring the kids along, unless they are also committed to the idea of learning to sail. Leave 'em with Grandma, and enjoy the learning experience as a couple.

[chris mac]

We are booked for a 6 day live aboard with ocean forest voyaging in may, at the Vancouver area. So far through email they have been very helpful.
We are leaving our kids with their grand parents. They won't have much fun being on the boat, and it's not worth the cost for them to just sit around. Plus it's a great way to get some time with my wife away from the kids in a romantic location;-)

[MikeJulieStL]

Unfortunately there are no grandparents to leave them with. Its either take them or forgo the training until they are old enough to stay by themselves or take the training with us.

We are leaning to a private course for a 101, 103, 104 and 114 and they would get their own rooms on a Lagoon 440 - but at a cost of roughly double what my wife and I would pay alone. Its not any more than we would pay for a week at "Beaches" so Im not too upset and it allows us to charter our own from here to retirement.

I do appreciate the feedback, while its not optimal they are big fans of the ocean and will most likely be just fine with morning and evening jaunts on shore and in the water.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by MikeJulieStL

Unfortunately there are no grandparents to leave them with. Its either take them or forgo the training until they are old enough to stay by themselves or take the training with us.

....

Ive been captain/instructor for a lot of live aboard charters with a mix of student and non-student guests. Including families with kids who were, or were not, students too. It is doable, but obviously more of a logistics challenge.

What I suggest you look for is a charter company that also offers training, not just a sailing school. Basically you book a charter and add the classes you want to take. Ive run many full service charters like this. With a full service, fully crewed charter, the kids can take as much training as they want and the crew can take them out for other activities, like snorkeling, while you and the instructor work on your remaining training.

Ive also run a lot of charters where the students took a different mix of classes. Again, doable, but more of a juggling act. For example, your kids could take 101, 103 and then you the rest of the mix (this is actually an easy combination to deliver...some are more challenging).

This of course is not the least cost option, but it works well for your situation.

Im no longer actively teaching, but I can refer you to charter companies who do this if you are interested.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by MikeJulieStL

... The live aboard 7-10 day classes seem like they would be the best fit for us and we would like to combine our vacation with a 101,103,104 certification. One complicating factor is the 11 and 14 year old we would need to bring with us - understanding that this isn’t a real vacation and that they will need to "shut up and color" until we are done for the day. Some charge full price for the kids, others don’t.

....

Keep in mind that for a one week charter including 101, 103, 104, you wont be doing much vacationing. Thats a full week of training at least if delivered properly.

Which classes do you plan for the kids to take?

[joeybkcmo]

Check sailsancarlos.com, it would be a destination class, but when we took our class with them very easy to work with.

[John_Trusty]

I'm concerned about what people can learn in these combined classes - perhaps reflecting my aging mind and ability to absorb so much in a week. For example, the 101 - 104 classes that are so popular means that a person gets on a keel sailboat for the first time ever on Monday morning, and begins to learn to sail (the wind is from here, the heeling over is OK, ...). By Saturday morning, they have mastered (to 70% understanding) how to do a man overboard under sail and motor, doing engine and electrical checks, basic navigation and ColRegs, radio and whistle communications, sail trim for wind conditions, etc. It's a boatload to take in!


As we all know, the information is additive, so even pre-reading may not help. The 104 book is written assuming that you have an intimate knowledge of how to sail and speak our language. Perhaps some of you that have taken these combined courses could chime in about your experiences preparing to take them, and what could and could not grasp in an accelerated course.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

I'm concerned about what people can learn in these combined classes - perhaps reflecting my aging mind and ability to absorb so much in a week. For example, the 101 - 104 classes that are so popular means that a person gets on a keel sailboat for the first time ever on Monday morning, and begins to learn to sail (the wind is from here, the heeling over is OK, ...). By Saturday morning, they have mastered (to 70% understanding) how to do a man overboard under sail and motor, doing engine and electrical checks, basic navigation and ColRegs, radio and whistle communications, sail trim for wind conditions, etc. It's a boatload to take in!


As we all know, the information is additive, so even pre-reading may not help. The 104 book is written assuming that you have an intimate knowledge of how to sail and speak our language. Perhaps some of you that have taken these combined courses could chime in about your experiences preparing to take them, and what could and could not grasp in an accelerated course.

From the perspective of an instructor, who has delivered loads of combined classes, these are valid concerns. It is a huge amount to absorb in a compressed time. A few considerations:

The School. It starts here, the school must manage what combinations are offered and temper the desire of stundents. It is common for students to want to sign up for everything all at once...this is not a good learning scenario. What I used to advise students was that it is better to complete 1 to a few classes, go and accumulate some on the water time, and then return and take more classes. The ASA standards were written assuming this...combination classes are something that evolved out of demand at the sailing school level. The sailing school should balance business pressure to book more revenue with what is best for the students. I think in the end that balancing these factors is nest for both, because students will learn and return.

The Instructor. It takes a good and very experienced instructor to deliver combination classes effectively. Especially in a live aboard environment which is typically less structured than a traditional class room environment. I really came to understand this when co-teaching with a new instructor. The plan was that he would deliver the training, I would tend to running the charter (mixed students/non-students), and coach him as necessary. I ended up doing a lot more coaching and class/time management than I expected...not because he was a bad instructor, but because it is a legitimate challenge to deliver training like this and he did not have experience doing it. So, ask about your instructor's experience in delivering combo classes.

The Student. Pre class preparation does work...in fact, it is absolutely essential for combination classes. What I used to do was send all the materials to the students as soon as they registered along with study guidelines for each class. Plus we offered phone/email support as the preped. The overwhelming majority of students show up prepared. Ive had just a few show up for intense combination classes unprepared. Most crammed every available moment, including their evenings, and managed to struggle thru...not a good learning scenario. One just gave up and sort of audited the rest of the training. Bottom line: pre class preparation works and is essential to combination classes. Make sure your school gets your materials to you right away and prepare diligently before class. This also plays into repeatative learning...the more you are exposed to the material, over intervals of time and different modes of delivery, the better you will retain it.

[Greenhand]

You can learn a lot by reading before you show up for a course. The informal course that we took started off with an evening lecture of vocabulary, except they forgot to tell us that and we wandered off. When we realized that everyone else was in a classroom, we snuck in, took the quiz, and did just fine. If you know all of the vocabulary before you show up, you can focus on actual skills once you are with the instructor.

[lorrie]

Good learn and sail class for navigation?


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