Interesting read from one of our fellow female sailors.....

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by weavis

Tucked on the back side of The Museum of Science and Industry is the 59th Street Harbor, a powerboat harbor (the entrance to the Lake goes underneath Lake Shore Drive which precludes masted boats).

African American James Reid joined Museum Shores Yacht Club in 1972. The first African American became a member in the 1950's or 1960's. The place was a shack originally (leased from the Chicago Park District and called a "shack" in the lease document). Through time, and through dues, the building has been rehabbed inside and out, added onto including restrooms and a kitchen and has been rented out for parties and weddings due to its new grace.

Docks in the harbor were old school for a long time - wood poles pounded into the harbor bottom and a wiggly dock nailed on. They had no power, fresh water, or anything else. In more recent years the Chicago Park District and Westrec (Private Company Manager of Harbors in Chicago) upgraded the docks to floating, with electricity, fresh water, and a pump-out station. A much appreciated and accepted improvement.

Being off the radar due to its location, the people in the harbor love the location. It's right off Lake Shore Drive, right next to the Lake, within walking distance of the Museum or Science and Industry, Chinese Gardens, Tennis Courts, and Bowling Greens. The fauna around the harbor is beautiful. Location, location, location.

The members worked hard to make sure it was youthful and astronomical fun. They ran boating classes for the youth, and within the harbor was a building for the Sea Scout Ship and they included the Sea Scouts regularly in club activities. They worked at being good community citizens, not only with the youth, but with the elderly too. Each year they organized a Senior Citizens Day doing a cook-out with burgers, hot dogs and boat rides by busing the Seniors from local homes to the event.

They held lots of parties throughout the year, and are known for being the partying club. Their biggest event is their Fish Fry.

James loves the club as it was full of great people who stepped up to volunteer to run the place through the years. He also is convinced that it is the best harbor in the Lake in his not-so humble opinion. While it's not often anyone publishes the dues of a yacht club (I don't know why?). James shared with me that dues are $150.......annually. Such a deal.

Did I mention this club is 100% African American?

African American Sailors in Chicago – Really? Really. | Live Your Dream: Sail Lake Michigan

Sounds like they need to diversify. You know, with some brochures of old white men in the pics.

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by tdominic_97

If you mention an Afro-American (there ain't no such animal, there are American's of African ancestry thou), in any light that someone doesn't care for, you are branded a racist

Using the word "animal" in a sentence about black people while complaining about being "branded a racist" ends my reading of this thread other than to state my support for the OP and my plan not to spend money with the vendor after reading his "apology".

Cheers,

Paul.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

Using the word "animal" in a sentence about black people while complaining about being "branded a racist" ends my reading of this thread other than to state my support for the OP and my plan not to spend money with the vendor after reading his "apology".

Cheers,

Paul.

Gosh Paul. You fell right into the PC camp. The term 'animal' is vernacular. (the language or dialect spoken by the ordinary people of a country or region). or in other words, everyday language to describe that there is not such a descriptor or thing as an African American. ie, no such animal. Its a common phrase use to describe many things, A plane with 12 wings, there is no such animal.

To imply more means you are looking through a filter to find fault. Perhaps your mind was already in a set. Thats fine, but be upset for a genuine reason and not using words to justify the judgement.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by StuM

Of course she didn't "demand", she couldn't. But she is attempting to pressure him nevertheless:

"Next time you make a run of these, you may want to consider including a more diverse group of people, especially people of color.”
and
"I also encourage you, if you’re at the boat show this weekend, to drop by and suggest he include more women and people of color in his marketing. I"

And some companies gracefully accept customer feedback to improve their product and sales. There just seems to be a lot of "Well one time back in band camp I experienced.............but I did not complain!" Oh the inhumanity of it all!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

And some companies gracefully accept customer feedback to improve their product and sales. complain!" Oh the inhumanity of it all!

If she'd been a 'Customer' he might have..

[Rock-Head]

Originally Posted by weavis

Gosh Paul. You fell right into the PC camp. The term 'animal' is vernacular. (the language or dialect spoken by the ordinary people of a country or region). or in other words, everyday language to describe that there is not such a descriptor or thing as an African American. ie, no such animal. Its a common phrase use to describe many things, A plane with 12 wings, there is no such animal.

To imply more means you are looking through a filter to find fault. Perhaps your mind was already in a set. Thats fine, but be upset for a genuine reason and not using words to justify the judgement.

Glad someone said this. It's all too common these days to proclaim offense where there is none. At least none based in reality...

Just solidifies my opinion that people suck. Generally speaking, of course.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Sandero]

I think pointing out *sexism* and stereotyping by writing a personal blog about an experience is perfectly fine. If a couple went to a boat show seeking a new yacht the assumption would be the male is the captain, the decision maker and the wife is only interested in the color of the cushions (*exaggeration*)... or buying a car.. the color of the paint... But this could be completely wrong. If a couple presents to buy a product together one should not act dismissively to one or the other for any reason... especially in service to some stereotype which does need to fall hopefully.

If people didn't do anything about / or to fight wrong headed stereotypes we would make no progress toward a more just and inclusive society.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If she'd been a 'Customer' he might have..

Oh so true. Some companies like feed back on why they lost sales as well

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Sandero

I think pointing out *sexism* and stereotyping by writing a personal blog about an experience is perfectly fine. If a couple went to a boat show seeking a new yacht the assumption would be the male is the captain, the decision maker and the wife is only interested in the color of the cushions (*exaggeration*)... or buying a car.. the color of the paint... But this could be completely wrong. If a couple presents to buy a product together one should not act dismissively to one or the other for any reason... especially in service to some stereotype which does need to fall hopefully.

If people didn't do anything about / or to fight wrong headed stereotypes we would make no progress toward a more just and inclusive society.

If you fight back then you are being PC (Marxist) or just discriminating against white men. Perhaps she should've bought the product, raved about the great sales service, and then shut up. Then all of this online upset would never have come about......... They'd not like the change it seems.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Sandero

I think pointing out *sexism* and stereotyping by writing a personal blog about an experience is perfectly fine. If a couple went to a boat show seeking a new yacht the assumption would be the male is the captain, the decision maker and the wife is only interested in the color of the cushions (*exaggeration*)... or buying a car.. the color of the paint... But this could be completely wrong. If a couple presents to buy a product together one should not act dismissively to one or the other for any reason... especially in service to some stereotype which does need to fall hopefully.

If people didn't do anything about / or to fight wrong headed stereotypes we would make no progress toward a more just and inclusive society.

When the husband is the one who initiates the conversation and the salesman replies to the husband, how is that sexism?

That's a huge assumption on your or her part. Perhaps if she'd stepped up and asked questions sooner, he would have spoken to her sooner. According to her blog, as soon as she asked a question, he began talking to her. That's hardly ignoring her.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

If you fight back then you are being PC (Marxist) or just discriminating against white men. Perhaps she should've bought the product, raved about the great sales service, and then shut up. Then all of this online upset would never have come about......... They'd not like the change it seems.

Why does it have to be a fight? Is that the only type of interaction between people?

The salesman talked to her as soon as she spoke to him. Unfortunately, she already had her mind made up not to buy the product and to make a big stink about a perceived lack of diversity, which turned out to be false.

But hey, lots of people like to throw around the racist and/or sexist label, makes them feel like a real SJW. You have to have an enemy to be a warrior, even if you have to invent one.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

If you fight back then you are being PC (Marxist) or just discriminating against white men. Perhaps she should've bought the product, raved about the great sales service, and then shut up. Then all of this online upset would never have come about......... They'd not like the change it seems.

Read it again.. Hubby was already negative as e-mails he'd sent 2 weeks earlier had not been responded to.. but they went anyway.. and they snowballed it from there.

Personally.. if someone blanks my e-mails they've lost me..

[weavis]

Life is what it is.

I am both a medical practitioner and teach medicine to neophytes and run post graduate courses for experienced practitioners.

Usually for the neophytes, I tell them right at the beginning something that will help them in their career.

I tell them stupidity is when you cant help it~ignorance is when you choose to not understand something.

When I teach experienced practitioners, I get to see the validity of the observation one way or the other.

Funny that.

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

When the husband is the one who initiates the conversation and the salesman replies to the husband, how is that sexism?

That's a huge assumption on your or her part. Perhaps if she'd stepped up and asked questions sooner, he would have spoken to her sooner. According to her blog, as soon as she asked a question, he began talking to her. That's hardly ignoring her.

Look.... I wasn't there... I don't know the entire history... the body language and so on. I do believe there is sexism out there... and we need less of it. This may not be a perfect example or a lesson... Frankly I don't care. My take away is that this couple (I think correctly) felt sexism in the experience described and they were probably correct. I can't say for sure.

If they write a blog about.. what's the big deal? They are entitled to write their beliefs? Why not?

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Look.... I wasn't there... I don't know the entire history... the body language and so on. I do believe there is sexism out there... and we need less of it. This may not be a perfect example or a lesson... Frankly I don't care. My take away is that this couple (I think correctly) felt sexism in the experience described and they were probably correct. I can't say for sure.

If they write a blog about.. what's the big deal? They are entitled to write their beliefs? Why not?

In a way I dont think the blog posts matter. These kind of threads are always enjoyable to me. So many points of view and interesting observations all around. Yes, there is real sexism hrrhutrumphhh.
This is social evolution. Ideas of right and wrong change over time. Slowly. Nothing happens like a big bang. The social norms that do not serve that society crumble even as a nee norm takes the place of the old, so both exist simultaneously. Very cool to observe.