How to pick a Delivery Captain???

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Godshalk

I am about to hire a delivery captain who otherwise checks out very well but his Yachtmaster expired a year ago - should I care?

I can't speak to yacht Master, but if this were a USCG license, yellow flag. Says to me they are casual about their participation and commitment to the industry as a delivery skipper.

In the US, once that ticket lapses, you have to start from scratch. Document seatime, take an exam, CPR cert, STWC cert, everything. Anyone who would let that lapse is very busy doing other things.

But again, no idea about Yacht Master.

[Godshalk]

Thank you for that fine point. Looking more carefully, I see that you are quite correct.

I appreciate your comment as I would like to go ahead with this captain.

Thank you for taking the time to clarify.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Not to split hairs too much, but a small correction: once a Yachtmaster, always a Yachtmaster.

What your skipper let lapse us his commercial endorsement. I did the same. It's a lot of hoops to jump through just to keep a piece of paper "current". At the time, I thought I'd had enough of all the paperwork and proving myself by little bits of paper!

And the "commercial endorsement" is really only relevant to Yachmasters employed on "commercial vessels".

"A commercial endorsement is required for work on board British flagged vessels subject to the MCA's codes of practice for small commercial vessels. A number of additional training courses and medical fitness certificates are required to be eligible for a commercial endorsement."


The fact that a RYA Yachtmaster certified delivery skipper no longer holds a current commercial endorsement would not concern me in the least.

[MV Wanderlust]

Originally Posted by mindsofman

I have a large liability coverage with
Pantaeneus.

You must be from Europe. Their website says that policy is not available in the US.

[Godshalk]

Originally Posted by StuM

And the "commercial endorsement" is really only relevant to Yachmasters employed on "commercial vessels".

"A commercial endorsement is required for work on board British flagged vessels subject to the MCA's codes of practice for small commercial vessels. A number of additional training courses and medical fitness certificates are required to be eligible for a commercial endorsement."


The fact that a RYA Yachtmaster certified delivery skipper no longer holds a current commercial endorsement would not concern me in the least.

Thank you also.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Recently, I've contributed to a couple threads where the OP had hired a delivery skipper. I used to be a full-time delivery captain out of San Francisco, though my last delivery was 2004.

Got me thinking - how do you figure out who has real credentials vs a good story? After all, 50% of them are below average, right? As to a referral, many might not know what 'good' looks like.

Obviously, references are a must. But best I could come up with to quickly test a candidates credentials are a couple questions along the lines of

1. Can you send me a copy of your credentials for insurance purposes? My packet included copies of my USCG 100T license, passport/drivers license (redacted), list of trips with significant details (endpoints, dates, distance, vessel description, documentation number, crew, etc.), and a couple letters of recommendation on letterhead. I wasn't cavalier about handing this out, but I wasn't stingy either.

2. Can you send me a copy of recent trip logs sent to the owner? Unless the owner was aboard, I would send a summary of the trip including observations, right down to my personal recommendation on what RPM seemed to be the sweet-spot.

Granted, anyone with a PC can fabricate something like the above, but would seem to be a better vetting process than "How many boats have you delivered?"

Thoughts?

Peter
USCG 100T Master 899414 (ret.)

Whoever you think you want to hire run their credentials through your insurance company. If you don’t have experience on the route they won’t insure you.

[gwyn]

I have been a delivery skipper for many years but not so adventurous now with increasing years. Also becoming an RYA sailing instructor changed my outlook completely on the level of risk I was willing to take on.

Before I even agree to deliver a boat, I would send my written terms and conditions for agreement together with a form asking for all relevant boat details. Just on the basis of this form, I once refused a delivery because I found 32 fundamental safety deficiencies.

As for insurance, the boat should have its own insurance and the owner confirms that they have informed the insurance company of the delivery. The delivery skipper should also have Skippers Liability Insurance to cover acts of negligence, etc.

I would never attempt a delivery alone, a minimum of 2 crew for up to 48 hours, 3 crew for coastal and 4 for ocean. You might also find that the boats insurers would insist on these numbers.

I only ever work on a per diem basis with a rate for being at sea and half that for being in harbour. Giving a fixed rate encourages reckless behaviour and I believe it is my job to look after the boat (and myself).

I always prepare the navigation before I step on a boat and have all the details (waypoints, distance and bearing) in my own log book and on my own paper charts. This enables me to enter the waypoints and route on to the boat's chartplotter and such a system double checks itself.

With regard to the RYA qualifications, the only qualifications which expire are the ones for instructor. These have to be revalidated every 5 years. A commercial endorsement on the licence can expire, by not having a valid medical or first aid certificate, but the underlying qualification does not.

Over the years, I have written stories of my deliveries under the "Story so Far" section of my web site.

Gwyn

[Night_Sailor]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Recently, I've contributed to a couple threads where the OP had hired a delivery skipper. I used to be a full-time delivery captain out of San Francisco, though my last delivery was 2004.

Got me thinking - how do you figure out who has real credentials vs a good story? After all, 50% of them are below average, right? As to a referral, many might not know what 'good' looks like.

Obviously, references are a must. But best I could come up with to quickly test a candidates credentials are a couple questions along the lines of

1. Can you send me a copy of your credentials for insurance purposes? My packet included copies of my USCG 100T license, passport/drivers license (redacted), list of trips with significant details (endpoints, dates, distance, vessel description, documentation number, crew, etc.), and a couple letters of recommendation on letterhead. I wasn't cavalier about handing this out, but I wasn't stingy either.

2. Can you send me a copy of recent trip logs sent to the owner? Unless the owner was aboard, I would send a summary of the trip including observations, right down to my personal recommendation on what RPM seemed to be the sweet-spot.

Granted, anyone with a PC can fabricate something like the above, but would seem to be a better vetting process than "How many boats have you delivered?"

Thoughts?

Peter
USCG 100T Master 899414 (ret.)

First, your statement that 50% are below average is false. Most delivery captains are so much better than average sailors, so I don't agree with that. I do know several captains that are not worth anything at all. Some are licensed but incompetent except for passing a test. You can spot those a mile away by their lack of confidence. A loser captain won't get any work.

As for trip logs. I've only kept one or two. A better idea might be to ask for a float plan and see what he or she provides. If it was a job I was interested in, I'd plot out the trip, put a price on the work, and will discuss it with the owner. I offer references. Most don't bother to check them out. The ones that do always want to hire me. I don't take every job. I turn away jobs like small, slow boats on the ocean.

Next most of my referrals come from word of mouth and I have other methods I will not disclose.

As for credentials. None of my customers every asked to see my credentials, and I have more than anyone else on the planet for sailing type deliveries. I did have a website online for many years. It listed my credentials and license number. If I was referred, these people do a search and find that. I have Captain's calling me looking for work, and offering to work as mate for me. These days I often make referrals to other captains as I'm busy with other things. It's a part time job, people do for fun and more experience, and not some many could make a living full-time without other income sources.

If you delivered out of SF Bay you must be quite good as that is a dangerous coast, as is the bay itself. I sailed out of there for many years and did one delivery to Hawaii. If I was doing a delivery out of there, I'd list the dangers to the customers, and typically I mention a few other dangers most Captains don't even know about, particularly the wannabes. There is one really skilled captain on the west coast. I wrote him a very strong recommendation. Reading my recommendation would demonstrate both his skill and my own. What you know and what you say, are more convincing than any piece paper. There are many unlicensed skippers I'd trust with my boat, and many licensed captains I would not.

Bottom line: A conversation with the owner is usually all it takes. A competent skilled captain is convincing. An unskilled "captain" is unconvincing.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Night_Sailor

First, your statement that 50% are below average is false. Most delivery captains are so much better than average sailors, so I don't agree with that. I do know several captains that are not worth anything at all. Some are licensed but incompetent except for passing a test. You can spot those a mile away by their lack of confidence. A loser captain won't get any work.

As for trip logs. I've only kept one or two. A better idea might be to ask for a float plan and see what he or she provides. If it was a job I was interested in, I'd plot out the trip, put a price on the work, and will discuss it with the owner. I offer references. Most don't bother to check them out. The ones that do always want to hire me. I don't take every job. I turn away jobs like small, slow boats on the ocean.

Next most of my referrals come from word of mouth and I have other methods I will not disclose.

As for credentials. None of my customers every asked to see my credentials, and I have more than anyone else on the planet for sailing type deliveries. I did have a website online for many years. It listed my credentials and license number. If I was referred, these people do a search and find that. I have Captain's calling me looking for work, and offering to work as mate for me. These days I often make referrals to other captains as I'm busy with other things. It's a part time job, people do for fun and more experience, and not some many could make a living full-time without other income sources.

If you delivered out of SF Bay you must be quite good as that is a dangerous coast, as is the bay itself. I sailed out of there for many years and did one delivery to Hawaii. If I was doing a delivery out of there, I'd list the dangers to the customers, and typically I mention a few other dangers most Captains don't even know about, particularly the wannabes. There is one really skilled captain on the west coast. I wrote him a very strong recommendation. Reading my recommendation would demonstrate both his skill and my own. What you know and what you say, are more convincing than any piece paper. There are many unlicensed skippers I'd trust with my boat, and many licensed captains I would not.

Bottom line: A conversation with the owner is usually all it takes. A competent skilled captain is convincing. An unskilled "captain" is unconvincing.

Let me start by agreeing and disagreeing there are people walking around with 50 even 100 Ton Licenses that I would barely trust to take a boat across Tampa Bay, let alone into open water.

A complete and accurate log indicates that the person cares about their profession. I have a log book and use it EVERY time I operate under license, and average an entry every 4 hours. A master’s log is a legal document that records what has happened. On long passages I also log the weather. It borders on incompetent not to.

As posted previously, people give me their vessel that is worth hundreds of thousands or even over a million dollars because I am skilled and have invested in technology to keep it safe. My inReach allows them to text me and track their boat. The Iridium GO allows me to email marinas, days before I get there to arrange for a slip or repairs. When Grand Cayman was closed, my email to the US Consulate helped get us entry.

Finally, if your benchmark is a float plan is a plan, that is a low standard. Even “bay captains” can whip up a float plan. The trick is knowing what to do when the plan falls apart, or weather changes and the plan needs to be altered.

[mvweebles]

By definition, 50% of delivery captains are below average. And 50% are above average. That's how averages work. Was a cheeky way of pointing out that some are better than others. So the question remains - how do you separate the top half from the bottom half? I can assure you I would have considered myself qualified for an east coast delivery based on my extensive experience on the west coast. But having spent some time in the skinny waters of Florida and Bahamas, I am certain there are much better qualified skippers than I ever was for those waters.

BTW - I didn't consider the pacific hazardous. It commanded a ton of respect, but I seemed to get boats moved around pretty well. For the 5 years I was full time delivering, I averaged about 225 days per year underway on deliveries. Other days were boat shows (trawler fest presentations) and a little bit of local stuff. In the first year, I also drove for a local 3-hr booze cruise boat certified for up to 75 passengers. That was crazy - docking in 30 kts sometimes was nuts. Rather be on the ocean.

[BBill]

Originally Posted by mindsofman

I've been moving boats, worldwide, for over
40 years now,Power and Sail.
In this time I've yet to damage a clients vessel
or log an Insurance claim.
Most of my deliveries are done Solo, even off
shore trips. I have good coveridge with a top
Insurance company and their recommendation
satisfies the demands of other Brokers.
most of what i find is required by owners and
their concerns is (1) multiple referances
(2) Ins. Coverage, (3) Experiance (4) knowledge
of Boats and their systems, (5) Area knowledge
etc..
Pricing is important but the safety of their
vessel is a priority...
I get calls from "Captains" that spend their
days sitting in Bar's, wanting to know if i
will give them a delivery, sorry, it aint going
to happen. Once years ago, i did, it cost me
about $12k,,never again.
So, priority for a Delivery Captain.
Safety Oriented.
Experianced.
Insured.
Mechanical/Electrical knowledge
And yes, a good sense of humour,, you need
it to deal with some of those owners.

Exactly. Call a reputable broker or insurance company for references.

[donradcliffe]

I get most all of my deliveries from word of mouth--other owners, the YC bartender or a broker. I do provide the owner with a list of recent work, and I have a resume for the insurance companies. I let my USCG license lapse, because all the medical hoops weren't worth the benefit of having a piece of paper--I retain the benefit of having studied for their tests.

I would say a good con man could convince anyone he was the world's finest delivery skipper--until you checked with his references.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

-


I would say a good con man could convince anyone he was the world's finest delivery skipper--until you checked with his references.

Agreed.

In the 21st century I will add history of their tracker. A good con man can cook-up references.

[BBill]

When I was a young kid I signed on once as crew with a delivery captain from FL to NY. The captain ended up being a fraud and was using a well known broker/captain's name from Ft. Lauderdale. I have no clue how he got the delivery job because it was for a prominent food company family and their 44' motorsailer. It took about one day offshore for me to see how bad (including being a staggering drunk and knowing little about navigation) he was and I departed first landfall in St Simons, GA. I found out he was a fraud after leaving the boat. I don't use captains but would never believe anything given to me in writing that can't be verified.

Some of the things I've seen over the yrs in FL is the best delivery captains are hired full time for mega yacht owners. The next tier of captains are pretty much full time with brokers and insurance companies. All the above have yrs of experience in the industry with the best clients. The next tier are part timers who get deliveries when they can and have the least experience.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by BBill

Some of the things I've seen over the yrs in FL is the best delivery captains are hired full time for mega yacht owners. The next tier of captains are pretty much full time with brokers and insurance companies. All the above have yrs of experience in the industry with the best clients. The next tier are part timers who get deliveries when they can and have the least experience.

I see this in Florida too. Much different on the Pacific coast. The tech-gazzillionaires have started to buy some mega-yachts, but they are generally few and far between. Large brokers/importers shy away from the liability of having a captain for customer deliveries or even making much of a recommendation beyond "Here are three - but final decision is yours."

Deliveries on West Coast is difficult to break into - it's a pretty big leap in credentials and capabilities to go from moving a boat from Long Beach to Marina del Rey for example (more or less like going from Miami to Ft Lauderdale) vs San Diego to Seattle which is an offshore passage with a couple stretches of around 100nms with no reasonable port. Not many opportunities to build that type of experience as a captain.

Peter

Peter