Can I downgrade to OUPV?

[boatpoker]

You do realize the GRT has nothing to do with the weight of the boat but is a measure of volume ?

[JasonS]

Your Helia is no where near 50 tons gross... even fully overloaded ��

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by Library70

A helia 44 is far less than 53grt. My Lagoon 410 calculates to 14grt

Tonnage measurement is a very inexact science. I have seen identical boats, same make, model, and year with drastically different tonnages on thier Documents. The 45 foot steel research vessel I used to run was one ton less than my 36 foot sailboat. 285 foot catamaran car ferry only 7 tons larger than another 65 foot monohull research vessel I ran. Only the "watertight" spaces count toward tonnage and apparently the definition of "watertight" is up the the whim (or how high the bribes) of the measuror.

[Heliades]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You do realize the GRT has nothing to do with the weight of the boat but is a measure of volume ?

I do know that but many others don't.

[Dsanduril]

A search of the USCG PSIX database for boats with a HIN beginning FPA54 (Fountaine Pajot, model #54 - Helia) results in boats listed from 13/12 (gross/net) tons to 53/42.

They're all listed at 43.5' x 24.3'. There are even three listed as uninspected passenger vessels, but still using simplified measurement, with 19/15, 29/26, and 53/42 as their listed tonnages.

This just demonstrates the difficulty of completing the simplified measurement form for a catamaran.

And this, straight from the USCG tonnage measurement guide should once and for all end any monohull-multihull debate - turns out we all sail monohulls

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

Tonnage measurement is a very inexact science. I have seen identical boats, same make, model, and year with drastically different tonnages on thier Documents. The 45 foot steel research vessel I used to run was one ton less than my 36 foot sailboat. 285 foot catamaran car ferry only 7 tons larger than another 65 foot monohull research vessel I ran. Only the "watertight" spaces count toward tonnage and apparently the definition of "watertight" is up the the whim (or how high the bribes) of the measuror.

This is inaccurate. I am a Transport Canada, IMO recognized Tonnage Measurer. The measurement rules are complex but there is nothing whimsical about them. You are also incorrect about only "watertight" spaces counting towards tonnage.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

A search of the USCG PSIX database for boats with a HIN beginning FPA54 (Fountaine Pajot, model #54 - Helia) results in boats listed from 13/12 (gross/net) tons to 53/42.

They're all listed at 43.5' x 24.3'. There are even three listed as uninspected passenger vessels, but still using simplified measurement, with 19/15, 29/26, and 53/42 as their listed tonnages.

This just demonstrates the difficulty of completing the simplified measurement form for a catamaran.

And this, straight from the USCG tonnage measurement guide should once and for all end any monohull-multihull debate - turns out we all sail monohulls
Attachment 230312

I did not know the US allowed "simplified measurement" for anything other than "simple multi-hulls". I've come across no other IMO signatory that permits that.

[jmschmidt]

Several responders here are correct. Any MMC with a "Master" qualification (Don't know about "Pilot" but sounds logical) automatically allows the holder to operate vessels up to 100GRT under OUPV restrictions (up to 6 paying passengers, no foreign voyages, no carriage of freight, within the territorial limits specified, etc.

Now is it "up to, but not including, 100GRT" or is it "including 100GRT?" Sorry, don't care, my boat is 68GRT and I'm too lazy to look it up.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I did not know the US allowed "simplified measurement" for anything other than "simple multi-hulls". I've come across no other IMO signatory that permits that.

46CFR69.11

§69.11 Determining the measurement system or systems for a particular vessel.
(a) Convention Measurement System (subpart B of this part). (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, this Formal Measurement System applies to any vessel for which the application of an international agreement or other law of the United States to the vessel depends on the vessel's tonnage.

(2) This system does not apply to the following vessels:

(i) A vessel of war, unless the government of the country to which the vessel belongs elects to measure the vessel under this part.

(ii) A vessel of less than 79 feet in overall length.

(iii) A U.S. flag vessel, or one of Canadian registry or nationality, or operated under the authority of Canada, and that is operating only on the Great Lakes, unless the vessel owner requests.

(iv) A U.S. flag vessel (except a vessel that engages on a foreign voyage), the keel of which was laid or was at a similar stage of construction before January 1, 1986, unless the vessel owner requests or unless the vessel subsequently undergoes a change that the Commandant finds substantially affects the gross tonnage.

(v) A non-self-propelled U.S. flag vessel (except a non-self-propelled vessel that engages on a foreign voyage), unless the vessel owner requests the application.

(b) Standard Regulatory Measurement System (subpart C of this part). This Formal Measurement System applies to a vessel not measured under the Convention Measurement System for which the application of an international agreement or other law of the United States to the vessel depends on the vessel's tonnage. Upon request of the vessel owner, this system also applies to a U.S. flag vessel that is also measured under the Convention Measurement System.

(c) Dual Regulatory Measurement System (subpart D of this part). This Formal Measurement System may be applied, at the vessel owner's option, instead of the Standard Regulatory Measurement System.

(d) Simplified Regulatory Measurement System (subpart E of this part). This system may be applied, at the vessel owner's option, instead of the Standard Regulatory Measurement System to the following vessels:

(1) A vessel that is under 79 feet in overall length.

(2) A vessel of any length that is non-self-propelled.

(3) A vessel of any length that is operated only for pleasure.

[mvmojo]

For every master's license, it's "up to" 50t, or "up to" 100t, etc. You're good to go for everything less than your license rating as long as there's no restriction on geography. For instance, if you have a 50t license restricted to inland waters it does not mean you can operate an uninspected 6 passenger vessel offshore. I've seen 25t licenses (in the old days) that were restricted to very specific areas from such and such a point to such and such a point elsewhere. They were issued for water taxi operations and the license holder could not operate a vessel outside these geographic limitations irrespective of the size/type of vessel.

[PNWSalmon]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Obtaining or upgrading a license is mutually exclusive to operating a vessel commercially. The Jones Act only applies to Inspected Vessels carrying cargo or people commercially in the US.

If I have a USCG Masters ticket and operate a ferry or whale watching boat that has nothing to do with my personal vessel. My personal vessel would not be subject to the Jones Act regardless of what ticket I held.

I should have been more specific. The original poster stated he was going to take paying passengers. I was pointing out that his boat needs to be in compliance with the Jones act.

[Manateeman]

A lot of newly licensed Captains are under the impression taking passengers for hire own their own boat is a way to make money. Easily and without risk.
Find an Attorney certified in Admirality and ask them what can go wrong.
Professional mariners routinely pay for insurance to protect their credentials.
This assumes the insurance company will defend you in all cases... which it will not Further, mariners tend to believe Justice resembles a Perry Mason episode.
If you are Japanese and hold a license in Japan and take only Japanese passengers, you might be ok, but in the USA, here are my recommendations if you feel you must make money .
Go back to school and get an AB. Never ride as Captain. Never take passengers or work on a passenger vessel. Never fix any boat but your own or survey vessels or teach sailing for money. Don’t work on the civil side of USCG or any Navy contractor. If you want to make a lot of money go work the oil patch as AB.
Captains hang, the crew just gets flogged.
Happy trails to you
Captain Mark and his Attending a funeral for two manatees...crew

[Heliades]

... "go work the oil patch as AB".

LOL good comments. I worked 40 years in the oil patch and have made quite good money. I am just looking to have fun and combine my USCG and ASA certificates legally. All good here.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Couldn't agree more with Manateeman above. I hold my OUPV 6-pack and I never made enough money to make a living... but I did offset "some" and definitely not "all" of the costs of my vessel for the year.

The stress is there and I highly recommend you call your insurance company... I did and it was well worth it. I only had to pay $300 more per year and they covered up to 23 charters, if I recall correctly. Even though I had the USCG Captain's License, I was more than happy to pay the $300 extra to make sure that I'm up to code and covered. I never, ever had to use my insurance since nothing ever happened on any of my charters, but still...

FAMOUS ADVICE: "Everyone is your friend until sh*t hits the fan..."

And believe you me... that's 100% correct!! Everyone is your friend until something happens... then, they're all against you!

[CSY Man]

. A lot of newly licensed Captains are under the impression taking passengers for hire own their own boat is a way to make money. Easily and without risk.

Been doing it for 4 years, nice little side gig and it has tax benefits.
Been fairly easy so far, and low risk.