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31-03-2023, 16:25
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 483
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
I'm with lestersails and Mike O'R. Both approaches can be good.
I already knew how to sail and had chartered a few times in the Caribbean when I needed the Int'l Certificate to sail in Croatia and Austrailia, so I took the ASA courses. (I think I tested out of the basic one.) I feel like I learned something from the classes and enjoyed them.
Also, walk into the local yacht club like you belong there, and stick a note on the bulletin board, saying you are available as crew, with your contact info, and likely you will be invited on races. One problem with that approach is unless it is a small crew, you may just be used as rail meat. You don't do much more than switch sides after tacks, until you work your way up the food chain or pester the captain with questions after the races.
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31-03-2023, 16:25
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,918
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Quote:
Originally Posted by wholybee
It is unlikely that with any of those methods would you practice man over-board drills.
It is unlikely that that these methods would teach colregs. .
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If you have money to blow and cannot learn on your own, you can pay a few thousand for classes while the rest of us check out a few books from the local library and learn.
The late charges though can add up to 50 cents to a dollar.
As to COLREG'S, learn the basics then if you want have the manual/book onboard for the details. Most of them you will never need
As far as man overboard drills, that is sort of hard for us that are single handed sailor to do.....
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31-03-2023, 17:59
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 3,325
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Learning to move a boat with wind power ("sailing") is probably less than 5% of the knowledge you will need for world cruising, but of course a very important piece of the puzzle. Either a class or some reading can get you started but to be really good you need two things: a "feel" for sailing (which you will get with your experience sailing your 15' boat) and some theoretical knowledge (especially force vectors a la high school physics, from class or reading). Depending on their skills, sailing with other skippers can be very informative (or not). I do not consider this an "either/or" situation: attend classes, read, sail with others, and practice on your own boat as well. Racing, as crew or skipper, will sharpen the skills - or at least show you how much more you have to learn.
When I was preparing to build my boat and go cruising the ASA courses were uncommon or non-existent. From what I can tell they are a good alternative, if expensive. You might also consider either the U.S. Power Squadrons (re-branding as "America's Boating Club") or the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary; both have an extensive range of classes that are free, or nearly so, except for materials. They require becoming a member and getting involved, which is a great way to meet other sailors (don't be put off by the name: the Power Squadrons has a lot of sailors and a decent sailing class). There are also immersive training classes in places like Florida that provide hands-on cruising experiences, probably best for later in the process. The gold standard for sailing education is the RYA program, which is not very common outside of the U.K. For those of us in the U.S. the option would be to live in the U.K. (aboard or in dorms primarily) for months while taking the course; the RYA Yachtmaster is a highly regarded credential. Personally, for an American I would recommend looking into the U.S. Power Squadrons. (Full disclosure: I completed all of their courses, was in charge of a squadron's education program, and taught Sailing as well as the Public Boating course.)
Beyond sailing, seamanship, piloting, navigating, engine maintenance, marine electronics, marine weather were classes offered and taken (and were valuable for cruising). There is so much to learn. But for now just get good at sailing your boat and start your learning process.
Good luck.
Greg
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31-03-2023, 18:28
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lake City MN
Boat: C&C 27 Mk III
Posts: 2,647
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
My opinion?
I can read all I want
Play all the F1 games I please
But that alone doesn’t make me a formula 1driver
Yah have to spend time on a boat sailing
Ada course, someone else’s boat, whatever you just need to sail to apply what you learned no matter how you learned it
__________________
Special knowledge can be a terrible disadvantage if it leads you too far along a path that you cannot explain anymore.
Frank Herbert 'Dune'
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31-03-2023, 19:04
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,548
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Like I said, it's not a binary question. Do both, or all.
Read and research. There's a lot of basic knowledge that can be self-taught. There's literally tons of books worth reading. And these days, online courses and videos are a wealth of knowledge (and I'm not talking the silly soft-porn sailing vids that pass as cruising life).
Take formal courses if they are available, and affordable. The great thing about structured learning is that you are benefiting from the wisdom of thousands who have come before you. A good teacher can open your eyes to whole new possibilities. And you get to learn -- and make mistakes -- in a safe environment.
Personally, I would only take on-the-water courses. Some lecturing is OK, but you want to put it into practice.
I do think the best teacher is just doing it. This is why I recommend new potential cruiser get themselves an inexpensive, cruising-level boat, and go. Go for as long as you can. Learn how to live, and thrive, on a smallish sailboat.
BTW, completely agree with CarinaPDX; sailing is a small part of the total skills needed for be a successful cruiser. And it's probably the easiest to learn. This is why I say look for courses that are on-the-water. You'll get a taste of the other challenges involved in this life.
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31-03-2023, 20:32
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Indiana
Boat: O'Day 322
Posts: 150
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Nothing wrong with classes, and that may be a good place to start maybe.
I broom a 3-day charter prep class, slept on the boat, studied and sailed during the day (but mostly a lot of docking work…most accidents happen in the marina don’t you know). Last day sailed to the next town, docked, ate lunch, sailed back and passed the class. That allowed me to charter a Catalina 36 from the charter outfit. Did that a few times over the course of the summer.
Then, over the next winter, I bought my first boat. I crawled all over every inch of the boat to understand her set up and systems. I sailed it every chance I got, in almost any sort of weather (not just nice days) to get experience.
Today, I am on my second boat, still sailing in all sorts of weather, crawling all over this boat and making upgrades here and there, keeping her maintained.
I have taken diesel engine classes, fiberglass repair classes, even some nav classes…but the best training I have gotten is just sailing…usually single-handed, in all sorts of weather.
Enjoy your new adventure.
Greg
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31-03-2023, 20:54
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Swarbrick S-80
Posts: 989
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarinaPDX
…The gold standard for sailing education is the RYA program, which is not very common outside of the U.K. For those of us in the U.S. the option would be to live in the U.K. (aboard or in dorms primarily) for months while taking the course; the RYA Yachtmaster is a highly regarded credential...
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From the RYA website:
“RYA training is now delivered at some 2,400 RYA recognised training centres in 58 countries worldwide.”
So, fairly well known outside the UK!
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16-04-2023, 22:50
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 3
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Quote:
Originally Posted by john745
I have some LIMITED sailing experience.
I've taken my own small 15' or smaller boats out on lakes 3-4 times on my own and I spent a day sailing with an experienced sailer in the San Francisco bay.
Limited experience. My confidence is perhaps greater than my experience.
I am considering the ASA courses vs. just going out and learning on my own with books and youtube and a week by myself on a rented boat.
Goal is 10 years from now... take the family sailing in the bahamas or cruising further. I have been thinking for a long time what to choose my favorite activity in order to spend more time with my family. Reading various essays on the American dream my american dream I found that many of our compatriots love outdoor activities. Of course, many people prefer car tourism, but yachting seems to me more interesting. And I think that the pursuit of such a goal will allow me to stay motivated while learning.
I do have a small 15' coronado which I purchased last year and hope to take out when it is warmer.
What do you recommend? I love to learn on my own but my time is limited. Do you recommend the ASA courses? They are kinda expensive.
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I'm in a similar situation. I'm also more into learning new materials on my own and also think the ASA courses are a bit pricey. But personally, in self-study, there is not enough dialogue with experienced specialists. Therefore, when training, I wanted to find an experienced mentor with whom I could exchange experience. Perhaps if there is a yacht club near your location, you can exchange experience there.
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17-04-2023, 05:13
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,918
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchieAL
I'm in a similar situation. I'm also more into learning new materials on my own and also think the ASA courses are a bit pricey. But personally, in self-study, there is not enough dialogue with experienced specialists. Therefore, when training, I wanted to find an experienced mentor with whom I could exchange experience. Perhaps if there is a yacht club near your location, you can exchange experience there.
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I learned sailing on my own, but I get to see the beginners in the Sail Time Sailing School here pretty close up.
They come out right by me as I am preparing to sail while still in my slip.
Yesterday there were 3 students and an instructor on a Colgate 26 which is a rather fast little sailboat.
The instructor was slowly but constantly explaining things as they passed.
Later I saw the students asking him questions. The students were three older women which I thought was great
It took me a while to get out to the Bay because I had to put my old mainsail back on and insert the battens which I did under autopilot on the way out. It was a PITA though as the wind was oscillating
We sailed for about three hours. I could see them from about 1-4 miles away running up and down the coast and putting the boat through many maneuvers
I'm thinking they learned quite a bit in those three hours.
Sometimes they just do docking over and over which is also good. The school has larger boats as well some close to 40'
Also you have to remember, the students pay a high price but they just show up and sail.
They didn't have to buy a boat, trailer etc or pay a slip fee just show up raise the sails and go with an instructor
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17-04-2023, 20:25
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Chesapeake Bay - Galesville, MD
Boat: Hinckley, Bermuda 40 Mk III, 40'
Posts: 269
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Where to start!? First, I agree with O'Reilly and others that it shouldn't be an "either/or" question - do both - and more. Next - I find my self wondering what you have in mind when you think about "learning to sail." Sailing - getting the boat to move with the sails up - is relatively easy. You'll have racers here talking about bending masts, adjusting sheet tracks and other things that will make you go fast. You'll have cruisers here talking about heavy weather, anchoring, and other such topics. All arguably are included in "learning to sail." What kind of sailing do you see yourself and your family doing?
To my way of thinking "sailing" is 10% getting the boat to move with the sails and 90% "seamanship." That is - getting the boat to stop once you have it moving, keeping the boat from hitting things, tying the boat up so it will stay where you left it (and not under or on top of the wharf). Can you splice a rope (both double braided and 3-strand)? Can you tie two ropes together in various ways - for various purposes? Can you put a larger boat in a slip (both forwards and backwards) or tie up to a parallel dock in various combinations of wind and current? Can you effectively coordinate the efforts of your "crew" - regardless of size - so that you operate your boat in an efficient and safe manner? With apologies to Kipling - Can you keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you?
You'll learn the rudiments of these in the ASA courses. After 60 years of sailing I took the 101 - 104 series and am looking forward to further courses. Even after all these years the course instructors taught me some things about "sailing" - but most important - I've learned how to better teach someone else. Not everyone who knows how to do something can teach others. My partner hadn't sailed, and took the ASA courses to learn. I took them so I could see what (and how) she was being taught so I wouldn't contradict what she was learning when it was my turn to give instruction. You may think about that if you're looking to teach others in your family - or if they may take the ASA series. When I was learning to sail my grandfather would smack me in the back of the head when I did something wrong. I learned that that approach to teaching is now frowned upon.
So - take the ASA courses (or Power Squadron courses, or others), sail in your small boat and move up to larger ones, sail with sailing clubs, read books, talk with others, participate on forums, charter boats, etc. Take in-person or on-line courses in weather, navigation, rules-of-the-road, and other "boaty" things. Buy a length (no - two lengths) of rope (small stuff) and learn how to do things with them (keep them with you so you can practice - they won't take up too much space in your briefcase). Then, before you know it, you will have learned how to "sail."
__________________
When I die, I want to go quietly, in my sleep; like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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18-04-2023, 15:43
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 4
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
I believe you need to take two options to achieve high results in sailing. ASA courses provide an opportunity to gain good knowledge and experience from qualified sailing instructors. But even these courses cannot be one hundred percent comprehensive. It is necessary to study independently. From my experience, I am convinced that knowledge must be obtained from different sources. When I needed to prepare my final project in the field of business, I read various books, watched podcasts, used helpful resource https://assignmentbro.com/us/business-decision-making-assignment-help and took online courses. It wasn't easy, but I wanted the highest possible result. And indeed, all those resources, namely the business decision making assignment help, came in handy. I hope you have enough time for a comprehensive study. But if you need to choose, you should choose ASA courses and training from professional instructors.
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15-06-2023, 15:36
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 19
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise
I am a firm believer that 90% of cruising knowledge is taught by experiencing repairing another vessel that needs repairs. Try and find an old boat at a marina owned by someone who is tryin got fix it up. You would especially be looking for someone who has repaired boats before.
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Is there any other ways you can think of to gain repairing/maintenance knowledge other than asking around at a Marina?
Your point makes a lot of sense. Honestly the sailing part seems easy compared to the troubleshooting and repairing of different systems on a cruising vessel. Do they not have courses for that? Ie sailboat maintenance and repair courses etc. I’d personally be interested in that. Like the original poster, I’m trying get some experience under my belt as well.
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16-06-2023, 07:19
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#43
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,970
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
I don’t know of any courses, but I think you’ll learn pretty quick if you have a boat. The local boatyard and chandlery often have knowledgeable and helpful people happy to talk boats with you too. And of course you can always send a photo to everyone here and chances are someone here will know how to help.
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16-06-2023, 07:37
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#44
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 31,032
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Engines I learnt as I went along with the help of my Workshop Manual.. along with some get by for the moment bodging.
If you can read and have some basic tools it's not something one needs classes for.. lay the bits out in sequence as you disassemble and work in reverse as you reassemble.
Diesel engines are fairly simple.
__________________
You can't oppress a people for over 75 years and have them say.. "I Love You.. ".
"It is better to die standing proud, than to live a lifetime on ones knees.."
Self Defence is no excuse for Genocide...
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16-06-2023, 08:48
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lake City MN
Boat: C&C 27 Mk III
Posts: 2,647
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Re: ASA course vs. learning on own
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61
Engines I learnt as I went along with the help of my Workshop Manual.. along with some get by for the moment bodging.
If you can read and have some basic tools it's not something one needs classes for.. lay the bits out in sequence as you disassemble and work in reverse as you reassemble.
Diesel engines are fairly simple.
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To add to this
Take pictures lots of pictures from many angles so you don’t miss any details
Saved me multiple times
__________________
Special knowledge can be a terrible disadvantage if it leads you too far along a path that you cannot explain anymore.
Frank Herbert 'Dune'
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