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Old 26-10-2016, 07:54   #16
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

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Originally Posted by BigBoater917 View Post
If you're already getting your 6 pac you may as well get the biggest license they'll let you sit for. Why limit yourself? A 100t NC should set you up pretty good for just about anything. You can also add on the Oceans endorsement later if you feel the need.
Do you still have to take the Celestial course for Oceans endorsement?
(Not an easy one from what I have heard)
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Old 26-10-2016, 08:16   #17
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

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Originally Posted by doublewide View Post
If you study on your own, you need to have all your sea time before taking the test at a USCG testing center. This is a perfectly reasonable way to get licensed. The USCG examining stations are not scary places. They are well-appointed and the people there are very courteous and helpful. They say going to a captain school is easier; I don't know about that

Your options: With 360 days on your sea log, you have only 2 license options. They are a) Master Inland, and b) OUPV, commonly called 6-pack The two tests are similar. I have taken them both, and the Master exam covers a bit more material but is no harder than the OUPV.

The USCG will limit your Master license to 25, 50, or 100 tons depending upon the ships on your sea log. I had most of my time on a 34 ton ship and they gave me a 100 ton license.

Inland or Near Coastal: To get an OUPV near coastal license, you need at least 90 days offshore. Without offshore days, you can only get OUPV inland.
To get Master near coastal license, you need 720 days total and 180 days offshore, so that is out of reach for you.

Be sure to take the exam for the license you need. Do you want to be licensed just for inland or also for near coastal? If you want to be licensed for both, I think you can take the Master Inland exam AND the OUPV near coastal endorsement OR you can take the OUPV near coastal exam. If you want a sail endorsement, you need to take a Master exam. They don't offer endorsements for OUPV licenses. For clarification, phone USCG; they are extremely helpful.

Good luck.
My recall may not be good but I think the time on a specific tonnage needs to have been in the past 15 years.
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Old 26-10-2016, 11:29   #18
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I'm curious, but have no interest in becoming licensed, so this is just being nosy:

I have been skipper of my own cruising boat(s) for around 35+ years. I have logged (and recorded in my journals) well over 100,000 miles, both coastal and offshore. If pressed, i could go back and get rough ideas of how many miles and days in each category.

My question is, would this experience count if i were interested in a license? Or do the days and miles need to be under the supervision of a licensed skipper or such?

Jim
As others have said, you can sign off on your own time, and it will count as time on tonnage for whatever tonnage your vessel is (Up to 100T).

The only "catch" that others haven't mentioned is you have to be able to prove ownership of the boat in question if asked and I'm pretty sure the vessel has to be US registered.
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Old 26-10-2016, 14:45   #19
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

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Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Could someone with background in Both Marine and Aviation licences, please compare the 6-pack test to an FAA pilot test (which one is harder)?

Thanks,

Steve
I concur with CSY's answer to this question for the portions of the two worlds I have experienced. (I'm not USCG licensed) I took the FAA private pilot exam, it wasn't onerous and as I recall scored 100%. I took the FAA instrument rating test. This is the one that a lot of people have trouble with, and have to take multiple times. I didn't find it all that hard, and scored 98%.

I'm now working through a very large "do-it-yourself' study book with about 2000 of the USCG's 20,000 questions, and it is kicking my butt. I suppose one difference besides the actual subject matter is my age (57 vs. 25), but this one will be tougher than flying. Hope this helps some.
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:17   #20
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

Thanks, SFS and CSY man.

Sounds like the Coast Guard written test is more difficult that an FAA Instrument WRITTEN test.

How would a 6-pack test compare with an FAA instrument PRACTICAL test (written + checkride)?

Steve
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:23   #21
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

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Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Thanks, SFS and CSY man.

Sounds like the Coast Guard written test is more difficult that an FAA Instrument WRITTEN test.

How would a 6-pack test compare with an FAA instrument PRACTICAL test (written + checkride)?

Steve
There is no "practical" test for a 6-pack. Or any license up to 100T as far as I know. (Not sure about above that.)
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:42   #22
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

Yes.

I'm just trying to get a feel how much effort a 6-pack ticket requires using an FAA certificate or rating as a benchmark.

I want someone to say something like: "my instrument rating was easier than my 6-pack".

or

"My ATP practical test was way harder than my 100-ton".

or

"All my flight training thru ATP was easier than my 100-ton".

Steve
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Old 26-10-2016, 20:38   #23
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

1. This was a long time back. but I had to have 720 days documented time, and all of the paperwork to sit for my 100 ton license.

2. I took a U,S.C.G. License preparatoy class that lasted several weeks. I was instructing sailing at the time when all of us instructors from the sailing club were required to obtain our masters license, it took me 5 years to log the necessary time.

3, I renewed it every 5 five years. On the last renewal, ( fifth ) the U,S,C,G. boosted my 100 ton up to 500 tons .

4. Renewals requirements varied over the years, not sure what it is now, but it was based on sea time over the last five years, or taking a written test.

5. I took attaining and maintaining my U.S.C.G. captains license very seriously.

6. I had many wonderful years of instructing, skippering charters, deliveries, and leading flotillas in the south pacific and the Caribbean.

Point being getting the sea time and the captains license opened up a world in the marine environment that allowed me to have not only grand experiences and adventures, but also brought many friends and loves into my life.

7. I no longer sail for compensation or hire, so I did not renew my license, after the fifth issue but Erica and I are still sailing, and bareboat chartering throughout the planet plus sailing off shore southern calif..

Just FYI as to how a path taken can turn a passion into a long time way of life.

As to taking a prep class, that is up to the individual.
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Old 27-10-2016, 00:48   #24
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

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Originally Posted by SFS View Post
I'm now working through a very large "do-it-yourself' study book with about 2000 of the USCG's 20,000 questions, and it is kicking my butt. I suppose one difference besides the actual subject matter is my age (57 vs. 25), but this one will be tougher than flying. Hope this helps some.
I was told that each maritime school has a pool of questions that they are approved by the CG to use. It's a subset of the 20,000 questions the CG uses. If you take a course rather than go to a CG testing center you have a somewhat narrower scope of possible questions and therefore a somewhat narrower scope of material to study.
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Old 27-10-2016, 05:21   #25
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

Steve is correct. The reason that I did not mention how much help the prep classes were, that prep schools and instructors might possibly vary across the nation. The course that I attended all those years long ago, was fantastic.

However, with some due dilligence and investigation I would strongly suggest a highly recommended prep class. We had seven instructors in our prep class and every of us one passed and received his USCG license.

In our prep class there was a wide range of applicants, maybe 15. They ranged from the newport beach harbor patrol who were orange county sheriffs, to professional crew on large fishing boats to those who just wanted the license and gain the knowledge acquired in the course.

The written test at the USCG testing facility took me one day for the different separate sections. Some sections required a 90 % to pass, others a 70%. You passed what ever section, or you went home.

I passed them all, and then came back for the navigation section the next day that took me about three hours. You needed a 90% to pass.

After that, right there in the USCG office, I received the license. I still have all of the 5 issues of the different license certificates in my files.

Now, on that first day, lets say that I did not pass the third section. I think there was a total of six sections. You stop, no further testing. You go home and can read up on that particular section, and return the next day or whenever, to continue. If you dont pass that section it on the second attempt, you need more study, and they require 30 days before you can re test.

And you have to re new every five years with documented time or written testing. Today, things may have changed, but that was my experience over a 25 year period.

Obtaining the USCG captains license , for me, was a serious endeavor, and I had the documented sea time.

I turned in a long list of the sail and motor vessels that I sailed , with the name, LOA, CF or documentation numbers, and area of operation including international .

Tip.. When I presented myself before the USCG LT., I was 15 minutes early, well groomed, clean shaven, and dressed nice, but comfortably. All my paperwork was in order. I handed my paper work to the LT. he looked it over, looked me over , and said, " Do you want to go for the 100 ton ? " My answer was " Yes, sir."

I had a military back ground and as a viet nam vet, I was aware of military bearing and promptness, and respect. The USCG is a military service.

Another applicant strolled in late, unshaven, hair not combed and in dirty clothes. The LT. looked at him and his paperwork very briefly, handed it back to him and told him he was late and to call back for another test date.

Lastly, as to testing, I would tell my students as to sailing club exams or or vessel check outs or going up for their USCG license, or anything in life.

Should they not pass, they did not fail.

YOU DO NOT FAIL UNTIL YOU GIVE UP !!!
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Old 27-10-2016, 06:25   #26
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

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Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Yes.

I'm just trying to get a feel how much effort a 6-pack ticket requires using an FAA certificate or rating as a benchmark.

I want someone to say something like: "my instrument rating was easier than my 6-pack".

or

"My ATP practical test was way harder than my 100-ton".

or

"All my flight training thru ATP was easier than my 100-ton".

Steve
I can see how that sort of comparision would be helpful to you as an aid to decision making on the boating side, but it is a tough comparison, as the processes are different enough that there aren't many direct analogies, plus one quote from one person is just one data point. Consider:

1) There are no practicals for the USCG side. So not only is there NOT that hurdle to clear, but there is not the pre-check ride anxiety, which I think affects some peoples' performance. You have more checkrides under your belt than me, so that may have lessened during your progression through ratings, and therefore the absence of a boating checkride may not matter to you. My personal opinion is that there would be a lot more folks failing USCG checkouts than FAA checkouts, for the simple reason that there are more variables affecting the movement of the vessel, and (outside of emergencies) it's the maneuvering at the beginning and end of each leg that prove your competence, in either arena.

2) I think the quantity and breadth of detail to KNOW for the USCG test is greater than any FAA written test I can imagine, unless there is a written test that accompanies the application for each specific type rating, in which case you have to know every last detail of every circuit and pump on every system in the individual aircraft.

3) The navigation portion of the USCG test should pose MUCH less difficulty for an accomplished pilot. It's sort of second nature to us, but not to a lot of boaters, and a lot of applicants I have talked to are really worried about the nav section of the exam.

Some things to help you calibrate for my potential biases. I am not yet USCG licensed. I have enough seatime to qualify for a near coastal Master's ticket, and am currently sailing my own Hunter 31. Much of my seatime was many years ago, and would be tough to catalog (unless I could go back to age 16 instead of age 18), so I will wait until most or all of my qualifying time is on my own boat to apply for a USCG license. On the flying side, I am an inactive pilot, SEL, complex endorsement, with around 600 hours. No turbine time. I also have many other professional and recreational licenses and certifications that have involved written testing and/or practical checkouts, so I tend to view these processes as just that, an evolution.

One additional thought. Although I view the accumulation of sea time as the principal obstacle for most people, I suspect that most other people see the exam as the stumbling block. If you fall in the latter category, then by all means go take a class, with people, in a classroom, for all the reasons already stated in posts above. It was absolutely the way to go for FAA instrument written. It's what I'm going to do for the USCG exam, even though I generally test very well. I only grabbed the "study on your own book" from the club's lending library to see what I was getting into, and I definitely wouldn't want to do it on my own.

I hope this helps some. If you want to talk, send me a PM with a phone number, and I'll give you a call.
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Old 27-10-2016, 07:57   #27
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

You would be able to use the time on your boat to get your ticket.

You don't have to be under a master or licensed skipper. All the tonnage master requirements have several different paths, sounds like you have a enough time to qualify though.

If you do pursue this go with mariners learning system online, or go with Dennis @ pacific maritime here in PDX.

Let me know if you want to hook up and chat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I'm curious, but have no interest in becoming licensed, so this is just being nosy:

I have been skipper of my own cruising boat(s) for around 35+ years. I have logged (and recorded in my journals) well over 100,000 miles, both coastal and offshore. If pressed, i could go back and get rough ideas of how many miles and days in each category.

My question is, would this experience count if i were interested in a license? Or do the days and miles need to be under the supervision of a licensed skipper or such?

Jim
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Old 27-10-2016, 09:24   #28
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

I took my first exam in the early 80s at a school in the Virgin Islands. There were about 20 people in the class and by the end I figured that I was almost the only one in the class that actually had sea time. Self recording of sea time was a joke. We had a kid in the class that had only run a skiff down wind at a resort to bring the windsurfers back that could not sail well enough. He and several others didnt know that a compass had 360 degrees and had a hard time comprehending how a compass worked. The scary part was that most of the class passed and got their 6 Pack. I got a 25 ton Limited Masters and kept very good track of my time and applied to raise the tonnage as soon as I had enough time in larger vessels. I worked on several large motor yachts in the Islands and got up to 150 ton. I think it was at the 200 ton level that the testing became very different. Large ship loading calculations were a PITA and I had to fly somewhere to take the fire fighting course. Much harder testing. I didnt have enough large time to take the 500 ton masters, so I took the 500 ton Mates license. Now that I think about it, that may have been when the load calculations came into it. The most useless test I took was the Oceans exam. I had been doing celestial for years by the time I took that exam and even after an online course had a difficult time. It had very little to do with actual sea going celestial navigation. I guess my point is that if you are going to get a license, keep good records and learn the system so that you know when to apply to raise tonnage or get another endorsement. HOUSTEN MARINE used to put out a large spiral bound book of the requirements for licensing. It was the best $25 I spent. The reason I went thru all of this was not to run commercial vessels, but for doing deliveries. There are many very experienced delivery skippers that have no license at all. If you are not carrying passengers, you are not required to be licensed, but insurance companies were starting to require some form of license for coverage. I got a couple of long distance deliveries because I was the only one the applied that had the oceans endorsement. I think that getting licensed is a good idea. I had many miles behind me when I took my first course and still learned a lot. The radar endorsement really sharpens up your skills. Go for it and learn and have fun. Just my long winded 2 cents worth. _____Grant.
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Old 28-10-2016, 18:33   #29
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

Has anyone documented sea time using an RYA license? I just got my RYA Coastal Skipper which required 1,000 mile offshore voyage and 3 exams.
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Old 28-10-2016, 18:54   #30
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Re: 6-pack sea time questions

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Has anyone documented sea time using an RYA license? I just got my RYA Coastal Skipper which required 1,000 mile offshore voyage and 3 exams.
Curious once again: why a requirement for offshore mileage for a coastal cert?

Jim
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