6 pack license - paying passengers and their guests

[Leighpilot]

It’ll cost you more in lawyers fees to win that case ( if you do , and I doubt you will ) than you’ll make taking more passengers on board. Best advice. Don’t try to be smart. The CG won’t care.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Jweyndling

I thought that with a full masters license you could take up to 12 on an uninspected vessel?

Only if the vessel's registered capacity is over 100 tons. And if that is the case, various other requirements apply, that do not apply to smaller vessels.

The provision exists to allow cargo ships to carry a handful of passengers without complying with the full set of inspection requirements that would ordinarily apply. This was based on the historic practice of having several staterooms aboard for the use of an owner and his guests or business associates. The practice began before the era of passenger air travel.

When the owner (or his guests) were not aboard, cargo lines would offer the staterooms to any paying passengers who wanted them.

The practice continues to a limited extent to this day.

[HeywoodJ]

Originally Posted by Jweyndling

I thought that with a full masters license you could take up to 12 on an uninspected vessel?

For the US, to carry 12 pax on a UPV the vessel must be > 100 gross registered tons and <300 GRT. A master's credential is required rather than an OUPV. Exception: In the USVI only, any UPV may carry up to 12 passengers so long as it meets the general requirements of a UPV. If that vessel calls at Puerto Rico it can only have 6 passengers aboard, the exception applies only to voyages entirely within the USVI (with an OUPV as operator) or USVI and BVI (with master's credential for international voyages).

Originally Posted by Jammer

...The provision exists to allow cargo ships to carry a handful of passengers without complying with the full set of inspection requirements that would ordinarily apply. This was based on the historic practice of having several staterooms aboard for the use of an owner and his guests or business associates. The practice began before the era of passenger air travel...

This may have been the case originally, but the rules now specifically state:

U.S. uninspected passenger vessels (UPVs) over 100 Gross Tons (GT) but less than 300 GTs that do not carry freight for hire.

Vessels that carry freight for hire and passengers for hire cannot be uninspected.

[capt jgw]

[QUOTE=Jweyndling;3704732]I thought that with a full masters license you could take up to 12 on an uninspected vessel?[/QUOTE

[CaptJimFrei]

Originally Posted by unlimited

So the 6 pack license allows you to carry up to 6 *paying* passengers. What if they were to invite guests and brought the total number of noncrew bodies to over 6?

Don't do it.

If you try to pass them off as crew, then they would need to be in a drug consortium, and probably need to possess a TWIC card.

[CaptBobR]

Originally Posted by unlimited

So the 6 pack license allows you to carry up to 6 *paying* passengers. What if they were to invite guests and brought the total number of noncrew bodies to over 6?

If your “guests” had to contribute anything (including paying passengers pay more, you’d be committing a federal felony. But don’t worry…the fine is under $25,000.

[Ratty1978]

It would be better to think of it as "a total of six passengers, with one or more paying." "Guests" are still "passengers."

Originally Posted by unlimited

So the 6 pack license allows you to carry up to 6 *paying* passengers. What if they were to invite guests and brought the total number of noncrew bodies to over 6?

[HeywoodJ]

Why not go straight to the horse's mouth (at least the US horse's mouth):

Passenger - Passenger means an individual carried on a vessel, EXCEPT

1. The owner or an individual representative of the owner, or in the case of a vessel under charter, an individual charterer or individual representative of the charterer;
2. The master; or
3. A member of the crew engaged in the business of the vessel, who has not contributed consideration for carriage, and who is paid for onboard services. (emphasis added)

46 USC 2101 (21) and 46 CFR 24.10-1.

Note that limit is on 6 passengers, not on 6 passengers for hire. In the charter world, frequently there is only one passenger for hire, the charterer, and that person has guests who do not meet the definition of "for hire" but are nonetheless passengers.

Under those definitions you could quite probably get away with 7, if the documents were all correctly configured. One paying charterer who would not count as a passenger, and six "guests" of that paying charterer, who all count as passengers. To get there would require a bonafide charter agreement, and at least arms-length between the charter transaction and any transaction between the charterer and their guest(s).

[BluePeter]

"They" meaning the vessel's captain, or "they" meaning the paying party (ies). Dangling modifier at work here....

[Ratty1978]

A charterer (or one representative of a charterer) is not a passenger. That's how you get 12 + 1 for a bareboat charter. It's 12 non-paying passengers, + 1 charterer or representative.

Of course, if the "driver" is also the "owner" it's not a legitimate bareboat charter.

Originally Posted by HeywoodJ

Why not go straight to the horse's mouth (at least the US horse's mouth):


Note that limit is on 6 passengers, not on 6 passengers for hire. In the charter world, frequently there is only one passenger for hire, the charterer, and that person has guests who do not meet the definition of "for hire" but are nonetheless passengers.

[capt jgw]

If they're on the boat and not crew, they're passengers. My tour boat frequently has caterers or a band on board, they're counted as passengers even though they're being paid by the charterer to be there. They're not boat crew, they're passengers.

[Nav4425]

Illegal period. 6 passengers or less.

[Nav4425]

Good way to lose a license,

[kindrunnermike]

[QUOTE=HeywoodJ;3704751]For the US, to carry 12 pax on a UPV the vessel must be > 100 gross registered tons and <300 GRT. A master's credential is required rather than an OUPV. Exception: In the USVI only, any UPV may carry up to 12 passengers so long as it meets the general requirements of a UPV. If that vessel calls at Puerto Rico it can only have 6 passengers aboard, the exception applies only to voyages entirely within the USVI (with an OUPV as operator) or USVI and BVI (with master's credential for international voyages).



This may have been the case originally, but the rules now specifically state:



Vessels that carry freight for hire and passengers for hire cannot be uninspected.[/QUOTE

This USVI exception is 100% correct for those of you who are thinking this is not possible. It came to be as a direct response by the USCG to several changes made to BVI laws that were intended allow BVI licensed captains and charter companies to take massive market share from the US charter business. Before the change, US citizens would get on BVI boats in the US waters and take paid charters while US Captains could not do the same in BVI waters.

[dalepo]

What about fundraising charters for which the owner / captain receives no compensation -- would this scenario require a USCG license?

This scenario might come up if, say, a boat owner donated a sunset sail for six passengers for a nonprofit's silent auction benefit.

Or a boat owner might encourage (or require?) guests on a daysail to make a contribution to a local environmental nonprofit in lieu of compensation for him/herself.

In either of these cases, the boat owner is receiving no direct or compensation beyond good karma. Based on the following language from USCG page someone cited above, it would seem a license would not be required, right?

"You need a Coast Guard license if you carry
even one passenger for hire on your vessel.
“Passenger for hire” means a passenger for
whom consideration is contributed as a condition
of carriage, whether directly or indirectly flowing
to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any
other person having interest in the vessel."