|
|
06-10-2018, 10:22
|
#46
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 58' Sedan Bridge
Posts: 5,583
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
Speed sells, but then after the purchase many find out what speed costs, then have to deal with the results.
It’s interesting to listen to them, the I crossed Lake Okechobee at 18 kts and the I can get to the Bahamas in four hours, then as you talk to them more you find out that they could, but haven’t, they don’t go anywhere cause they get less than 1 MPG.
|
Usually it's easy enough to just go slow, and some of the semi-displacement "trawlers" lend themselves to that. The Mainship Pilot, mentioned above, probably does that pretty well.
Even I can do that with our planing hull, and if I pay attention we can and do get closer to 1.5-1.75 NMPG... at about 7 kts.
The semi- and planing hull forms aren't always perfect for all sea states, though... but OTOH, a full-displacement "trawler" can get pretty rolly in some sea states too. And sometimes using the extra power to "tack" at slightly higher speeds in some sea states (as that Mainship can do) works better than rolling back and forth forever.
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA.
|
|
|
06-10-2018, 13:48
|
#47
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
I remember our Sportfishermen wouldn’t steer worth a darn in any kind of sea when going slow, cause I believe of the tiny rudders.
We would always run out to the Middle grounds overnight and go slow, cause my Brother was convinced we would hit a floating telephone pole if we didn’t.
One trip we had to hand steer cause the autopilot didn’t work, and looking at the track on the plotter it looked like drunks were helming the boat, it’s tough to steer with only a compass with a planing hull, going slow.
|
|
|
06-10-2018, 14:23
|
#48
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,206
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
I remember our Sportfishermen wouldn’t steer worth a darn in any kind of sea when going slow, cause I believe of the tiny rudders.
We would always run out to the Middle grounds overnight and go slow, cause my Brother was convinced we would hit a floating telephone pole if we didn’t.
One trip we had to hand steer cause the autopilot didn’t work, and looking at the track on the plotter it looked like drunks were helming the boat, it’s tough to steer with only a compass with a planing hull, going slow.
|
My father called them postage stamp rudders. They probably work OK on a plane but who can plane when it gets nasty. His tracking of my course by compass was the wake. Roger your yawing all over the place. It had to be in a straight line.
|
|
|
06-10-2018, 15:42
|
#49
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
|
Which Trawler should I consider ?
I think it’s a combination of small rudders designed to operate in high velocity flow right behind the props and a lack of a keel.
In my mind what I want in Trawler is a single engine with a large rudder and the prop in an aperture so you can run aground and not put the prop in danger.
That’s I’m sure a full displacement hull.
What I am saying is that contrary to a lot of what you will hear, it’s not just a matter of slowing down, fast boats just don’t do slow very well, or not as well as one designed to only go slow.
|
|
|
06-10-2018, 16:07
|
#50
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,206
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
I think it’s a combination of small rudders designed to operate in high velocity flow right behind the props and a lack of a keel.
In my mind what I want in Trawler is a single engine with a large rudder and the prop in an aperture so you can run aground and not put the prop in danger.
That’s I’m sure a full displacement hull.
What I am saying is that contrary to a lot of what you will hear, it snot just a matter of slowing down, fast boats just don’t do slow very well, or not as well as one designed to only go slow.
|
Big dia. low pitch wheel and a barn door rudder. If someone wants an economical true trawler.
|
|
|
06-10-2018, 16:24
|
#51
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 4,651
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
Big dia. low pitch wheel and a barn door rudder. If someone wants an economical true trawler.
|
You called
|
|
|
06-10-2018, 16:51
|
#52
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: sold Now motor cruiser
Posts: 697
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Finding the change from owning a cat for 20yrs with two of everything, into a single engine 3o' "trawler" type hard to get my mind around as well. (I would find it hard getting into a single engine piston aircraft as well). Then relearning a larger engine upkeep as well! One I am keen on has a bukh 36 so if I can live with the different motion & rolling it might work. I am going from the dark side to a more darker side!! I think dememtia is next!!
|
|
|
06-10-2018, 17:10
|
#53
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 124
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Best of both worlds, semi displacement:
At 6 knots we are burning about a gallon an hour.
At 7 knots we burn about 2 gallons an hour.
8 knots uses about 3 gallons an hour.
Propeller is in an aperture.
Motion is easy most of the time at slow speeds, if not, a little throttle and the hull sucks down into the water and things steady right up. Of course, if you like, it will actually plane to about 20 knots. Burns lots of fuel doing that but we only do it for short periods of time, usually just to get out of crappy conditions.
We usually travel at about 8 knots. It is a good comfortable speed.
The boat is an American Tug 395...
|
|
|
07-10-2018, 05:37
|
#54
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 16
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Quick question. Why this division? The thing that separates sailboats from motorboats is the propulsion. Maintenance, guidebooks, charts, weather, draught, shoals, passagemaking etc are the same. The love of travel, meeting new people, learning about different countries, exploring, the love of the sea is all the same. We are after all sailors. I find this division and snobbery very sad. And idiots can be found everywhere regardless of the type of vessel. The perfect boat doesn't exist. Every boat has their challenges and shortcomings. I would be so nice if people would concentrate on the things that bring us together than the opposite. I will treat you with respect and dignity, invite you to a sundowner regardless of the type of vessel. And meet nice people and learn something. We can all learn from each other.
Zarih
|
|
|
07-10-2018, 06:02
|
#55
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 58' Sedan Bridge
Posts: 5,583
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
I remember our Sportfishermen wouldn’t steer worth a darn in any kind of sea when going slow, cause I believe of the tiny rudders.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
My father called them postage stamp rudders. They probably work OK on a plane but who can plane when it gets nasty.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
I think it’s a combination of small rudders designed to operate in high velocity flow right behind the props and a lack of a keel.
In my mind what I want in Trawler is a single engine with a large rudder and the prop in an aperture so you can run aground and not put the prop in danger.
That’s I’m sure a full displacement hull.
What I am saying is that contrary to a lot of what you will hear, it’s not just a matter of slowing down, fast boats just don’t do slow very well, or not as well as one designed to only go slow.
|
I've read that, but never had any significant issues with steering when we're cruising at slow speeds in comfortable sea states. Sometimes when the wind pipes up and we're trying to troll at 2 kts on one engine, the autopilot can't keep up... but then almost nobody wants to cruise at 2 kts.
Our previous boat had even smaller rudders, again no issues with steering at slow speeds.
Not all sea states are comfortable at slow speeds, as I said before, but steering hasn't been the issue there. That's where rolling starts to get uncomfortable, and when that happens we usually just go faster, sometime tacking. Most of the unstabilized full displacement boats have the same problem, actually... but they can't go faster to try to mitigate.
I think (not sure) the Mainship Pilot that was mentioned, single engine version, might have a decent keel, likely has a much bigger rudder than like our current ones.
Our first big boat was an older '80s Mainship, with a downeast-style hull design, semi-displacement with full keel, skeg, etc. I think -- but don't know for sure -- that Mainship still did that on their single-screw versions. (Dunno what Marlow has done.)
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA.
|
|
|
07-10-2018, 06:04
|
#56
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 58' Sedan Bridge
Posts: 5,583
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarih
Why this division?
I find this division and snobbery very sad.
|
Huh?
As far as I can tell, it's just a discussion about boat styles. Difference between a ketch and a yawl, and so forth. Pros and cons of each, etc.
???
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA.
|
|
|
07-10-2018, 06:17
|
#57
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 124
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarih
Quick question. Why this division? The thing that separates sailboats from motorboats is the propulsion. Maintenance, guidebooks, charts, weather, draught, shoals, passagemaking etc are the same. The love of travel, meeting new people, learning about different countries, exploring, the love of the sea is all the same. We are after all sailors. I find this division and snobbery very sad. And idiots can be found everywhere regardless of the type of vessel. The perfect boat doesn't exist. Every boat has their challenges and shortcomings. I would be so nice if people would concentrate on the things that bring us together than the opposite. I will treat you with respect and dignity, invite you to a sundowner regardless of the type of vessel. And meet nice people and learn something. We can all learn from each other.
Zarih
|
It would be nice and in fact, once you get out there, beyond the realities of these strange, if interesting social media places, I find it more of a reality.
As sailors we knew lots of powerboaters, some have become dear friends. As recent powerboaters, we still look at and like sailboats and sailors.
As to the why, my quick guess... this lifestyle/hobby is such a difficult thing to rationalize financially that we tend to fall into the trap of “my way is the best...”
Face it, for the vast majority of us, the cost is a big deal. Yes, the payoff can be amazing but like much in this life, it is not free.
Thus, as we decide to participate on some level, we make sacrifices of some kind. What better conditions exist for “rationalization”?
You see it everywhere. Full keel vs fin keel? Chain vs nylon? Cutter vs sloop?
Semi displacement vs planing vs full displacement?
It is sometimes difficult to remember that just because someone else chose a different path does not make your choice a bad one...
Bruce
|
|
|
07-10-2018, 08:43
|
#58
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chesapeake
Boat: Kadey Krogen Manatee 36'
Posts: 3
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
You gave just enough information to be dangerous. Are you looking new, used and in what range and what are you really looking for? I own a Kadey Krogen Manatee that is no longer built. It is a 1990 with 3900 hours on the motor.
When I was looking I never got a solid answer about engine hours. So:
Normally aspirated Diesel engines can run way over 10000 hrs with mostly routine maintenance . Turbocharged engines can run the same but usually require more maintenance due to higher revs and horsepower. And extra coolers.
I suggest you figure out what you really want to do, long range, ocean or coastal cruise and what’s your desired speed, new or used, price and how old you want.
Good luck!!!
|
|
|
07-10-2018, 10:12
|
#59
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,206
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60
You called
|
I love it. Is it a true Kortz nozzle with a foil shape? And I do like the barn door.
|
|
|
08-10-2018, 11:11
|
#60
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 4,651
|
Re: Which Trawler should I consider ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
I love it. Is it a true Kortz nozzle with a foil shape? And I do like the barn door.
|
Yep, full foil shape.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Advertise Here
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vendor Spotlight |
|
|
|
|
|