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Old 09-01-2020, 16:03   #1
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Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Been researching trawlers a bit. I like the ones with wing engines... but I think double engines is better. Not as fuel efficient, but how many wing engines are regularly used?

Seems it might be a good idea to use the wing engines to get in and out of harbors or marinas, then switch to main for the long trip. That way you ensure the wing engines is functional, usable in practice and it gets regular exercise.
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Old 09-01-2020, 16:14   #2
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Allright, just what are "wing engines"on a boat?
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Old 09-01-2020, 18:20   #3
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Had to look that one up:


https://www.passagemaker.com/technic...re-the-options


"Wing engines essentially transform a single-engine vessel into a twin screw, albeit with a significant disparity in the power between the two engines. A wing engine itself is often no different than the main, just smaller. It typically includes all of the same accessories, options, and related components and falls under the same manufacturer installation requirements (which should be verified). In many cases, to aid in the utilization of space, wing engines will employ a V-drive transmission, wherein the wing engine shaft passes under the engine. The wing engine shaft passes through the hull via a stuffing box and shaft log assembly, just like that of the main engine. However, unlike most main engine shafts, which pass through the keel, the wing shaft relies on a strut for support."


Getting Home - Ocean Navigator - November/December 2007


" A wing engine is a small, low-power, completely separate propulsion system, independent of the main engine, with its own shaft and prop — usually a feathering or folding type — and with its own electrical and fuel systems. The engine is located in the engine room off the centerline, as is its drive line."
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Old 09-01-2020, 18:31   #4
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

As always... it depends...

I have seen auxiliary drive systems on trawlers that ran off the generator engine. Seems to make sense on a boat that has a big genset.

For boats that cruise within hailing distance of a towing service, a "wing engine" seems a waste. You can buy a LOT of towing insurance for the cost of the extra engine! For single engine boats that routinely cruise bluewater routes it seems a good idea.

The longer the passage the more the efficiency of the single engine is important, and the more the reliability of a dual engine set up is nice to have. Only you can figure the balance that suits you and your cruising style.

There are an awful lot of single engine boats out there crossing oceans.
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Old 10-01-2020, 04:53   #5
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Ive never owned a vessel with a wing engine, but if I did Id be sure to utilize it for a short duration at least every time the boat was used.
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:12   #6
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Why would you not just install a bow and/or stern thruster?
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:15   #7
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Quote: "Been researching trawlers a bit."

Really? Are you talking about trawlers - as in real ships - or are you talking about "trawler yachts" - as in marketing men's hallucinations?

What sort of budget do you have? Is it sufficient to acquire and maintain either kind of vessel - with or without "wing engines"?

I shouldn't doubt that if you put a little intellectual effort into it, you can construct in you own mind the command sequence required to dock either kind of vessel under various conditions of drift and set. Twin screw vessels and "wing engine" vessels are handled exactly the same for harbour maneuvering.

To get you started, you might like to construct, and post here for our critique, the command sequence you would have employed, had you been conning HMS Exploit during the docking maneuver shown here:



While you are about it, you might like to point out a serious breach of good seamanship committed by one of the men.

All the best in your search for a suitable vessel.

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Old 10-01-2020, 12:44   #8
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Engines have become so reliable that having two so one will get you home has lost its appeal. Besides, a big chunk of remaining engine problems are fuel, and the water in your diesel took out both engines... Add to that the wide availability of towing services, and my trawler (somewhere between a yacht and a commercial boat) was designed to have a wing engine but I didn't bother to install one. My engine is 1950s design (DD453), and it has never failed to start.

So, the move is to bow thrusters, stern thrusters, and Artificial Intelligence helm stations (just kidding, but it will come soon).

Save your money, go single engine, and don't think that a 38 ft "trawler" is an ocean-going boat. Wrong hull shape for more interior space, big windows that will have your first broach go in one side and out the other side of the main salon.
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:59   #9
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KadeyKrogen38 View Post
Why would you not just install a bow and/or stern thruster?
Sounds like the OP is more concerned with efficient forward motion in low speed scenarios where the main engine(s) might be overkill. Thrusters are more for side to side motion.
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Old 10-01-2020, 13:05   #10
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Trent, you have me chuckling. Please drink another coffee or two before skewering poor peasants. Smile.
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Old 10-01-2020, 13:09   #11
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Installing a second engine is very expensive. We all have tenders if we really need a tug.
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Old 10-01-2020, 13:10   #12
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Since the main engine/prop pushes water directly toward the rudder (in forward gear), I would expect maneuverability to be better with the main than with the wing. Prop walk provided by the larger main prop is also useful for close quarters handling. Thrusters even better.

If you choose a boat with a backup engine, it sure makes sense to run it every so often, but it seems to me that close quarters would not necessarily be the best place to do so.
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Old 10-01-2020, 19:16   #13
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

thirds,
To answer your question, YES attacking new forum members seems to be the norm.
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Old 10-01-2020, 19:17   #14
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkeithlu View Post
Engines have become so reliable that having two so one will get you home has lost its appeal. Besides, a big chunk of remaining engine problems are fuel, and the water in your diesel took out both engines... Add to that the wide availability of towing services, and my trawler (somewhere between a yacht and a commercial boat) was designed to have a wing engine but I didn't bother to install one. My engine is 1950s design (DD453), and it has never failed to start.
Old mechanical engines are reliable. Since adding electronic controls, sensors and more diesels have become unreliable. My diesel pickup when thru 3 cam position sensors in 2 months. Each time stopped w/o warning. Dead by the side of the road. That why I have Detroits in the boat.
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Old 10-01-2020, 19:38   #15
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Re: Use wing engines to navigate harbors?

First, a wing engine is a form of auxiliary propulsion fitted to single engine trawler yachts. They are a "belt and suspenders" approach for folks who seek to cross oceans or circumnavigate. An example is Nordhavn, many of which have indeed circumnavigated. The second engine is normally mounted off-center with a folding prop. In many cases the PTO off the wing engine drives hydraulics such as thrusters and windlasses so the engine is regularly exercises. There are other forms of emergency backup including using a generator to run an electric motor that connects to the prop shaft via belts or chain. The advantages/disadvantages of each system are hotly debated.

This is little different than traditional sailboats where engines were called "auxiliaries" meaning a backup to sail. In modern times, few Sailors would leave port without a well functioning engine, especially when crossing an ocean.

As to the reliability of modern Diesels, true. However the Tier 3 common rail Diesels have electronic controls and are susceptible to rogue electrical currents such as lightning strikes (they have a limp home mode).

To the OP - you may want to try your luck with TrawlerForum.com, sister site to CF. You will get a warmer welcome on this topic than here.
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