Two Stroke / Four Stroke Outboards

[motion30]

Originally Posted by forsailbyowner

I've seen the advertisement where they claim the e tec has lower emissions. They wave a wand in the air behind the running engine. Like airborne emissions are the only emissions. What happens to that oil that is injected? A large percentage still ends up in the water. Run a two stroke in a barrel and do the same with a four stroke. The water will tell the story. I'm surprised to hear so many against the environmental movement. Like an ostrich sticking his head in the sand, What pollution problem? I'm totally happy with my 3 hp four stroke. 3 star emission compliant, 35 lbs. Great fuel economy. I don't feel the need to go 20 kts in my dinghy or sailboat. Full time liveaboard cruiser 3 yrs no plans on changing lifestyle.

There are so few outboard motors period that they make very little impact on the environment .big waste of time and money in my book. How much emissions does one oil refinery expell in one day? If you knew you would be sick

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by forsailbyowner

I've seen the advertisement where they claim the e tec has lower emissions. They wave a wand in the air behind the running engine. Like airborne emissions are the only emissions. What happens to that oil that is injected? A large percentage still ends up in the water. Run a two stroke in a barrel and do the same with a four stroke. The water will tell the story. I'm surprised to hear so many against the environmental movement. Like an ostrich sticking his head in the sand, What pollution problem? I'm totally happy with my 3 hp four stroke. 3 star emission compliant, 35 lbs. Great fuel economy. I don't feel the need to go 20 kts in my dinghy or sailboat. Full time liveaboard cruiser 3 yrs no plans on changing lifestyle.

I have a feeling something is not registering here... those 2-stroke e-tec's are cleaner for the environment than 4-strokes. They too are 3-star compliant which is the reason they are allowed in CA. And they even won that big green price that no other outboard, incl. 4-strokes, ever won. And they probably use less oil than most 4-stroke outboards in use.

I am sure you never ran an e-tec in a barrel, you are comparing to old-tech 2-strokes.

I completely agree with your liveaboard lifestyle; been doing that for 7 years myself now an no plans on changing it either. And I think I can safely state that 90% of all liveaboard cruisers are concerned with the environment, if not more. I calculated we use about 20% of the energy that the average American uses, and a large part of that is from solar power, very clean.

At your hp range, the 4-strokes are the only choice for conserving the environment. That is not a problem because with that little hp, you use much less fuel, making up for using a more polluting technology than the e-tec 2-strokes. But users of 25hp and up have a better option now, or soon at least, when they work out some issues for small e-tec's. I will certainly consider one when the time has come for a new motor.

ciao!
Nick.

[Cheechako]

Actually, the Etec's do not burn any less gas than comparable engines, and of course burn oil... quite a bit in fact. (caveat: in the 150 hp to 250 hp range) It seems to be a great concept, but maybe it's one of those things where if everything is perfect then a great result occurs... unfortunately, the real world is not consistant or perfect. Gasoline is not the same gasoline wherever you go. Suzuki 4stroke, Yamaha 4 stroke, Mercury.. I have tested dozens of them on new boats. We tested every boat when it was completed, real world on the water. It's amazing how uniform the fuel consumption numbers are on similar HP engines by different manufacturers. There are variables, some boats carry a lot of more "stuff" than others depending on what people order. They pretty much all test close except for the differences in boat weight.... and even that makes less difference than you would think. Maybe a 250 hP engine running at 3500 rpm on a plane is going to burn similar gasoline whether its pushing 4500 lbs or 5500 lbs....?

[Mustang Sally]

The USCG and US Navy have just dropped their 4 stroke Honda's and Yamaha's and after extensive testing are going with Evinrude ETEC 2 stroke motors which have fewer moving parts and the same or better mileage in a lighter weight package. The ETEC motors also meet or exceed environmental guidelines.

[s/v Jedi]

Cheech,

You are correct, but the great thing is that old-tech 2-strokes burn much more gas than a 4-stroke. The e-tec's closed the gap on the fuel economy and pollution fronts and put 2-strokes on the same level as 4-strokes again.

When using in the real world, you wouldn't notice much difference between a 4-stroke and an e-tec 2-stroke I hope, and that's the fantastic thing.

ciao!
Nick.

[Cheechako]

Yea, I have to say, the four strokes are awful smooth. I spent two weeks salmon fishing in Nootka sound with a 200 HP Suzuki. We trolled at about 3.5 knots. The boat had a 15HP yamaha 2 stroke kicker on it, but eventually we just trolled with the 200 hp. It idled so smooth and quiet it was great. Yamaha makes an 8hp 4 Stroke high output kicker (the one with the huge prop) that is absolutely amazing. If I had a little sailboat that used a kicker, man that would be the one. Even avail with power tilt etc. It'll push a 29 footer along in chop without even slowing down. Regarding the Navy etc... whew where do I start? How they decide and buy things is abysmal. Many of the boats I've mentioned were gov't boats. We all have the image of the Navy keeping things "ship shape"... apparently today's Navy is a lot different. Here's an example of how smart today's Navy is: Had to do warranty work on a boat, this was a special purpose fast 26 footer. The navy complained about a list of things that were not holding up. The boat has a large rubber molding for a rub strake... I mean like 8" wide, they complained it kept coming off from the water hitting it at speed. We paid someone to fix it. (it is held with like...5/16 bolts) It loosened up again. We sent one of our guys to entirely replace it the second time, and to do some other warranty work. The problem was the boat sits at a dock exposed to the wind. The navy had no fenders to protect the boat from the constant battering on the dock.... so it would beat day in and day out on the dock shearing off the 5/16 bolts! They also demanded the expensive, large Stainless Steel search light be replaced... it was showing light rust spots. We asked them what they polish it with? The answer was..."polish it?" You get the picture.... the work ethic in todays Navy seems to be similar to the work ethic today in general.... Boy, I wish I was their Chief Petty Officer!... but I suppose that would be "harrassment"..

[forsailbyowner]

Still can't see the two stroke burning all the oil that's injected. My experience with four strokes is a Yamaha 9.9 Hi thrust and the aforementioned merc. I never added oil to either between oil changes. Will have to do some checking to see if the emissions checked are strictly airborne emissions in their ad claims. Having turned some wrenches in my day still can't fathom crude 2 stroke technology keeping up with a hemispherical swirl combustion chamber found in the small Yamaha 4 strokes.

[Cheechako]

Yea, if someone wants to make a difference sell only 4 stroke 150-250 cc Yamaha motorbikes! If you've been t o the DR and taken one of their "taxis" you know what I mean!

[Highlander40]

I use a 8 hp Yamaha 2 stroke that I bought after owning a Mercury 6 hp 4 stroke. The small 4 strokes just dont make it. Too much vibration, poor acceleration. Before that I had a 5 hp 2 stroke that out performed the 6 hp.

The oil you put in a 2 stroke makes a big difference. I have used regular merc oil and then the top of the line synthetic merc oil. The synthetic oils burn better. There is no residue running down the outside of the motor.
Not sure if we can still by them here but the Yamaha 8 hp is only one or two years old and has a carburator, just like the merc 4 stroke.

The Yamaha weighs 60 lbs and I don't have a stick in my boat to pick up a bigger motor.

Have fun.

[Dockhead]

I have an E-Tec equivalent engine in a Bombardier snowmobile (Bombardier owns Evinrude; it's the same technology). I wouldn't say that the fuel economy is equal to a four stroke, but the fuel economy is good, and in general the thing runs wonderfully well, starts with half a revolution, has never broken in years of hard usage, sounds great, and goes like a bat out of hell.

I love two strokes, E-Tec or old school. They are dead simple, have much better torque and responsiveness than a comparable four stroke, are much lighter, and cheaper. They don't last as long, and they use more fuel, but there are hardly any other disadvantages. A two-stroke outboard is just the thing for your dink.

[Cheechako]

Hard to beat a Yamaha two stroke for a dink. My 15hp went for 12 years....then I sold it!

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Actually, the Etec's do not burn any less gas than comparable engines, and of course burn oil... quite a bit in fact. (caveat: in the 150 hp to 250 hp range)

that is not consistent with what I'm hearing otherwise. Best reports I've been given are that E-tec outboards in the 225 range consume around 2 gph less than the competition.

[Cheechako]

That would be pretty huge, any idea where you heard that? If I remember right those HP engines burn 7-10 GPH at speed ...2gph would be HUGE... I no longer have the data sheets as I no longer run that facility, but I personally crunched the no's. They quit selling 'rudes just before I left due to the many breakdowns and customer relationship concerns... unless the customer insisted. We sold a lot of duals, one customer had two near new engines blow the power heads within half an hour of each other and had to be towed in! When you get a pair of Etec 250's with no issues and open them up... they are sweet engines! You pay dearly for dual engines in fuel though. One 250 might burn 12 GPH at 40 knots and two will burn about 18GPH or more!

[Cloud IX]

Yamaha makes a 10hp two stroke, fully compliant with all US requirements and for sale through a number of US dealers. I'm getting one for the dinghy.
Don

[Highlander40]

If your dink can handle it, the 15 hp yamaha is the exact same weight.