Tug compared to trawler as cruisers

[Wckoek]

That is to say a really good sailboat or motor sailor either monohull or cat is a far logical choice to cross ocean or cover great distance with.

Your friend is really lucky, most large yacht say 100-150 feet do not have a range exceed 500 NM, very rarely they do exceed 1000 NM, and ocean crossing range takes specialized design, build and requirement, to get one for less than 3 million in Euro is a real bargain.

[Wckoek]

Sailing super yacht can be get for under 3 million I agree.
Yes, it makes no sense to get a long range trawler when you can get sailing super yacht for the money.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Wckoek

The main goal here is range, and also the main problem.
1. It has to have true 5,000 NM of range at 7-8 knots cruising with reserves for generator.

Originally Posted by Wckoek

All possibilities discussed, multihull, bulbous bow, or anything, absolutely no possibility to have a motor yacht cross ocean in comfort unless you have 3 million or more to spend.

Your other criteria don't seem so difficult to meet...

But can you say why you want that kind of extraordinary range? Lots of powerboats with less range -- and which cost less than $1M, at least on the used market -- have successfully/safely crossed oceans with plenty of reserve fuel to spare.

Perhaps starting with KK42s, N40s, and upwards from there...

Or maybe you're only focused on brand new builds?

Or...?

-Chris

[Wckoek]

If you are from the east coast your idea of ocean crossing is different than us in the Asia pacific, say from Japan to Honolulu would be more than 4,000 miles.
Above 5,000 nautical miles is what I would consider the amount capable of circumnavigation.

I understand there are many good designs that can do a lot the better and cost better.

I am raising the possibility of new build because I can only think of semi-production designs less than one hand I can count that is capable of doing this, and if such criteria if capable, make practical or logical sense if at all, that's the possibility what I am asking for.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

The easiest way to do long range cruising under power is to take a sailboat (monohull) and fit extra fuel tanks but keep the sailing rig. I have done some theoretical calculations on my boat (31') which averages 10 nmpg. In big seas it makes 5 nmpg and in calm seas it can go as high as 15 nmpg. This means you need to fit 200-300 gallons of diesel (challenging but not impossible - may be one 80 gallon flexible tank under the v-berth, another 60G under the port settee and 40G under the starboard front settee + 20G built in). This will give you an average of 2000 nm range + you can always sail. Clearly a larger boat will give you more space and margin. One would need to sound proof the engine compartment better, carry some spares for the engine, may be relocate the waste tank - small modifications. I would not do it but someone desperate could easily modify a sailboat into a power cruiser. Even if the boat sinks 2-3" below the water line, it is not the end of the world. Many cruising boats are just as overloaded carrying water, dinghies, etc. With the money you save you can easily buy a dinghy at your destination.

The other way is to get a 50-60 foot powerboat with an ocean optimized hull and retrofit fuel tanks to increase the range. This is a much bigger and more expensive retrofit option because the required fuel is measured in thousands of gallons vs. hundreds.

Lastly, a number of people mentioned small trawlers, tugs, whatever costing millions. I do not see the point. The other day I was on a friend's 135 ft yacht, excellent comfort (understatement), ocean crossing range, pools, etc. all for less than Eur 3 million. I am sure that options exists between 50 feet and 135 feet that can be had for less than a million. Why bother with a tiny trawler then? If you want to spend that much money in a boat, just get a yacht.

Your 31' boat doesn't have the load carrying capability to handle the weight of that much extra fuel. Not even close.

At 30' you are probably looking at a max usable displacement of around 1,500-2,000lbs. But this includes people, food, supplies, spares, etc. Basically anything that isn't laminated or bolted to the hull. 300 gallons of diesel is going to weigh in at over 1,800lbs. So you might be able to squeeze yourself on board so long as you don't bring food, water, clothes, or even a tooth brush. But you could very easily be overloaded just with the fuel.

And yes sinking a boat beyond her designed maximum is dangerous. It makes the boat far less sea worthy, over stresses the gear, and increases the likelihood of foundering. You take a vessel that might be easily capable of safely crossing oceans with sails and make it less safe, and likely slower by trying to do it with motor alone.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Wckoek

That is to say a really good sailboat or motor sailor either monohull or cat is a far logical choice to cross ocean or cover great distance with.

Your friend is really lucky, most large yacht say 100-150 feet do not have a range exceed 500 NM, very rarely they do exceed 1000 NM, and ocean crossing range takes specialized design, build and requirement, to get one for less than 3 million in Euro is a real bargain.

The first paragraph makes sense the second not much.

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by Cadence

The first paragraph makes sense the second not much.

I assume that Pizzazz was referring to motor super yacht when he mentioned his friend's 135 ft yacht with all the amenities and especially ocean crossing ability.
If one look at yachtworld, boat international or every where it is not difficult to find motor yacht with comfort and amenities from 900k to 3 million dollars or Euro, you get to see a lot of Sunseeker, Princess, and other Monaco style yacht, but most of them do not have a range beyond 500 NM, less alone crossing oceans.
I did a quick check, the closest motor only super yacht (above 30M, or 100 ft) to the sum of 3 million was one listed at boat international at the sum of 6 million, which had a range of 3000NM, apparently "expedition" yacht was a different class of yacht.
Sailing yacht of equivalent size and capability could be had for 1/3 of the price of these yachts.
You can have jacuzzi, pool or anything on your yacht, but it appears that range is the most expensive feature in a motor yacht.

[Panope]

Idlewild

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by Panope

Idlewild

Yes, I read about Idlewild a while ago, it has the same weakness as the Harjamaa long range cruiser, air conditioning and stabilization, it might consume too much fuel on the generator to make the range, but no air conditioning in a metal is too much.
And I very much prefer active stabilization to paravane, nothing wrong with them, but the added drag even little, effort to deploy them and danger in catching fishing nets in busy waters, it just make it more logical to just go for sails and keel ballast stabilization.
Accommodation is little but tolerable, but the range is also on the optimistic side.

No boat is perfect I understand, not one that is affordable.

[Wckoek]

Northwest Passage 2014: Sailboat v Motorboat - FIRST decide what is important to YOU - after all - you will be spending many hours aboard

All the points here sound compelling for a motor passage maker, but looking at the YouTube video of the boat undertaking its first passage, it just roll too much unless it's in the calmest of weather.
Adding to no air conditioning in a metal boat with all those windows...

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Wckoek

If you are from the east coast your idea of ocean crossing is different than us in the Asia pacific, say from Japan to Honolulu would be more than 4,000 miles.
Above 5,000 nautical miles is what I would consider the amount capable of circumnavigation.

I understand there are many good designs that can do a lot the better and cost better.

I am raising the possibility of new build because I can only think of semi-production designs less than one hand I can count that is capable of doing this, and if such criteria if capable, make practical or logical sense if at all, that's the possibility what I am asking for.

What did Nordhavn do when they traveled those legs in their N40 or N46?

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

What did Nordhavn do when they traveled those legs in their N40 or N46?

I know of one case of crossing from the pacific north, like the Biodeme Island off Bering Sea from mother Russia.
They do quite a few stops I understand.

Now I understand why America is unprepared for Japanese attack on the Pearl Harbour, it certainly wasn't easy or they think could be possible back then.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Wckoek

I assume that Pizzazz was referring to motor super yacht when he mentioned his friend's 135 ft yacht with all the amenities and especially ocean crossing ability.
If one look at yachtworld, boat international or every where it is not difficult to find motor yacht with comfort and amenities from 900k to 3 million dollars or Euro, you get to see a lot of Sunseeker, Princess, and other Monaco style yacht, but most of them do not have a range beyond 500 NM, less alone crossing oceans.
I did a quick check, the closest motor only super yacht (above 30M, or 100 ft) to the sum of 3 million was one listed at boat international at the sum of 6 million, which had a range of 3000NM, apparently "expedition" yacht was a different class of yacht.
Sailing yacht of equivalent size and capability could be had for 1/3 of the price of these yachts.
You can have jacuzzi, pool or anything on your yacht, but it appears that range is the most expensive feature in a motor yacht.

Now it makes sense. Probably me, I haven't looked into mega yachts lately. I saw Mark Cuban's in the paper this AM. Thought I'd buy it and put my house on the helo pad.

[speretsman]

Walked the Megadock yesterday. Loved the tender on Cuban's Feadship.
To the point above however, The Mangusta 130' astern of Cuban's boat was refueling. Crewman said she refuels at 450miles (?nm).
Directly across was a new KK52- I'd cross an ocean in that.

[ZULU40]

Passagemaker 60

Endurance Range 3,000 to 7,500nm

Sea Spirit Yachts - Passagemaker60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIB4IHw9cOY