Soldboats.com

[Julie Mor]

From what we've learned in our search, soldboats gets its figures from brokers. Some believe those figures are inflated to keep the price of boats high. I've read some brokers have confirmed that.

Lenders use NADA prices. They are typically much lower than seller asking prices. Lenders have no emotional investment in the boat so they tend not to see more value than whatever they believe the boat can be resold for, should the borrower default.

BoatUS also does value pricing. For the most part, they are close to NADA prices but usually a bit higher. Most boats we've looked at and compared with NADA and BoatUS values are way overpriced.

Financially, it makes no sense to me to pay more than lender value. If the lender says a boat is worth 40% less than asking, that's what it's worth to me, in part because I don't want to take a serious hit on the other end when I'm selling. It's much easier to keep the boat buying-selling costs down on the buying end than on the selling end.

[sailpower]

Soldbats.com is affiliated with YachtWorld. Yachtworld only has brokerage boats, no private parties.


When a boat sells on YW most but not all brokers report a selling price. That price may or may not be accurate. If it is a high volume model it is pretty obvious which prices are useful. If there are only a few sales of a particular model then harder to know.


Many brokers report accurate sold pricing. A few do not.


I don’t know any lender that relies on NADA unless it’s for small boats on trailers. NADA is generally way off the mark. I suggest that any buyer call NADA and ask them where they can find boats at those numbers. You won’t get an answer.


BUC used to be the resource that lenders rely on but even there they have their own formulas.


Guides are something to look at for relative values but not worth a lot beyond that.


Professional shoppers are always coming up with formulas and then using the results as a reason not to buy. Real buyers figure it out. 40% off expectations will usually keep you in the first group.

[Julie Mor]

Originally Posted by sailpower

I don’t know any lender that relies on NADA unless it’s for small boats on trailers.

We called three different lenders, one was our broker's agent and two were big name internet lenders. All of them said they use NADA prices and we're talking boats in the 37'-40' range.

We took a cruise a few weeks ago. The owner of the boat said, "You make your money on the buying end, not the selling end." He then went on to explain his boat buying and selling methodology for his last three boats. He said he negotiated hard on the buying end, doing extensive research on the true value of the boat. When it came time to sell, he priced it for a quick sale, sold it quickly and bought a new boat using the same methods as before. He's owned at least half a dozen boats and has never been stuck waiting for his boat to sell.

In the boat market, the average boat sits for almost a year before it's sold. If that was a house, realtors would say the asking price is too high. From what we've learned, it appears the same holds true for boats.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by Julie Mor

We called three different lenders, one was our broker's agent and two were big name internet lenders. All of them said they use NADA prices and we're talking boats in the 37'-40' range.

Ericson 38? What year?

[smj]

You may find a boat to buy for nada, but my guess is you probably wont want it as it will probably be in terrible shape!

[Julie Mor]

Originally Posted by sailpower

Ericson 38? What year?

The E-38-200's we've seen on YW are from '86-'90 and are priced reasonably close to NADA and BoatUS prices. The later PS built E38s are listed considerably more.

[sailpower]

The 1989 in Severna Park, MD was listed 2/13 and is asking $59,900.


A 1989 sold in MA 4/13 asking $64,900 at $60,000.

A 1989 sold in CA 5/13 asking $89,800 at $75,000.


NADA has a 1989 valued at $40,000 low and $45,000 high. You can probably add up to 2k more for some options.


Clearly NADA isn’t very helpful here in establishing a selling price.


Now if you are saying that banks will lend up to the NADA value then, yes, they are “using” NADA as a guide for what they will lend. Again, that doesn’t establish market value as the borrower is expected to have equity in the deal over and above the loan.

[Julie Mor]

For the one in Severna Park I got $44,550-$50,430 from NADA. There's another one in Kent Island that's an '88 and came out $42,895-$48,565. The KI is listed at $57,900. So that's in the ballpark, to me. Cuz you still have some other things to consider that the NADA site doesn't list for options.

If the lenders stick with NADA, I'm guessing they won't lend you 100% of NADA value estimates. One lender said 10% down minimum on '93 and newer boats and 20% down on older and if that's off of NADA prices, a buyer may have to come up with a sizable down payment.

It's no secret the older a boat is, the more money you'll need to sink into it once you purchase it. So I would expect a buyer would want that cash sitting in the bank after the purchase.

If we took the boat that sold for $65K and subtract the difference of $50k NADA and then add the $10K down, the buyer needs $25K to put down on a $65K boat. That's 38% down. I would want at least another $10K in the bank for fix up. And there would be slip fees, insurance and other immediate costs you'd need cash for too. So let's say another $8K. So if you want to buy that $65K boat you need at least $43K in the bank.

I wonder how many prospective buyers would just walk away if they had those numbers sitting in front of them before they started seriously looking for a boat?

[sailpower]

Here is what I saw:

1989 Ericson Yachts ERICSON 38/SL Standard Equipment, Boat Value, Boat Price & Craft Specs | NADAguides

[Steel sails]

NADA is all over the place. I sold my 1998 PDQ 36 earlier this year for nearly 3 times the NADA retail. The boat sold in 10 days from listing and was one of the lowest priced PDQs on the market. The boat was correctly listed in sold boats.

However I bought a Southbay 925 (party barge type lake boat) recently and paid between to low and average retail.

However I am sure there must be many many more south bays sold than pdq's
Regards
Paul

[FLLCatsailor]

A well educated and knowledgable broker can normally determine what is a bogus number in soldboats...

[smj]

Originally Posted by FLLCatsailor

A well educated and knowledgable broker can normally determine what is a bogus number in soldboats...

From my experience I think some brokers list the sold price as the listed price, not the actual price it sold for.

[FLLCatsailor]

Originally Posted by smj

From my experience I think some brokers list the sold price as the listed price, not the actual price it sold for.

Thats the biggest tell.

[Julie Mor]

Originally Posted by sailpower

Here is what I saw:

1989 Ericson Yachts ERICSON 38/SL Standard Equipment, Boat Value, Boat Price & Craft Specs | NADAguides

But that's bare bones. I've used the checklist they have and that's how I arrived at the numbers. Their checklist is pretty basic but includes a lot of the big ticket items. The two boats I mentioned both have A/C. That bumped up the price a bit.

[rourkeh]

Your broker has access to all the historical pricing info of every boat sold and the price it brought. also he can check original asking price and if it was lowered and how many times. Use him you are already pay him.