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Old 04-09-2020, 19:11   #76
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

Grand banks were wood until 1972-1974 range.
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Old 22-12-2020, 17:18   #77
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

I wouldn't buy a wooden hulled boat for any amount of money. We have better materials for that now....
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Old 23-12-2020, 16:12   #78
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

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Originally Posted by Donny Bahama View Post
My thinking - if we do decide to buy this boat - is that we would haul her out, strip off all the old paint, then have a thorough inspection of the hull (inside and out, removing fasteners and checking for rot wherever it may be hiding) by a surveyor who specializes in wood boats.

Yes, essential to do this.

Armed with a comprehensive repair list, we would make all the necessary repairs then paint the bottom with CopperCoat from just above the waterline on down. I think that those who caution against wood boats donít consider how awesome and effective CopperCoat is but I am completely sold on it and this would be my plan for whatever boat we buy - wooden or fiberglass - at the first haul out.

I make my own copper-based epoxy bottom coating, because I have lots of epoxy laying around, and because I prefer to work with a particular brand of epoxy, and decide how much copper and graphite, etc. I am willing to scrub and buff frequently to keep the copper particles exposed. Copper Coat gets mixed reviews -- and my own formula is unlikely to work any better. But here's the point: the wooden boats I build are impervious to water, and the wood remains dry all the time (this is the case with most West System boats). Old wooden boats, are for the most part, designed to remain wet all the time... just the opposite. They swell and shrink, endlessly. I would be concerned about the Copper Coat blistering from water vapor in the wood, cracking from differential plank shear and tension, etc. But maybe Copper Coat has a history of working fine on wet-wood -- if I were you, I would check with several people who have had Copper Coat for 5 or more years on old style (wet-wood) wooden boats, and get their feedback. A really good wood boat surveyor could give you advice too. Maybe it's just fine -- but I'd have to think that 99.9% of all boats with Copper Coat are not of the wet-wood type.

If you wanted to make a dry-wood boat out of a wet-wood GB, you'd need to dry out the hull for maybe 8 months, grind to solid wood, and then apply a couple layers of 18 oz cloth in epoxy to above the waterline. The interior would also need to be epoxy saturated everywhere -- otherwise, doing the outside would be pointless. There have been many attempts to make dry-wood boats out of wet-wood boats, and most fail. It can be done, but is one heck of a job. As you may be aware, dried planks shrink, opening up seams, into which you have to work epoxy.

But again, if a wet-wood boat surveyor says go ahead with the Copper Coat, it may be fine. I, personally, would not do it -- I'd stick with the same bottom paint that has been used, to avoid making something in between a dry-wood boat and a wet-wood boat.


... Anything to avoid pulling the engines!

Then have someone else do it. I've pulled a many engines (a couple boats, a zillion cars) and it is pretty easy (definitely easier on many old boats than on many modern cars). Compared to the hull work, this is a minor thing.

No worries about living far away; we intend to liveabord and would be moving onto her from the moment the transaction is finalized.

Better you than me. I would never dream of living aboard a boat I am restoring. This from someone who has jumped off cliffs strapped to a hang glider, raced motorcycles, etc. But you may be much more risk tolerant than me.

Side question: are there boatyards that will let you liveabord - or at least look the other way - while sheís on the hard?

As a general rule, in the US, no.

The survey talks about how sturdy and well-built she is....

There is plenty of room on a GB for a keyboard. I have a couple, and can recommend an inexpensive one... in fact, if you really get involved, there are very small keyboards of just a couple octaves, that hook up to a computer. (You can electronically transpose them up and down to anywhere). The annoying things will be related to boat age and not hull condition, wood or otherwise: continually failing wire terminations, cranky old carburetors, the occasional hideous explosion and ensuing conflagration when you hit the starter before turning on the blowers*, equipment finally dying, etc. Set aside one day a week for keeping up with such stuff... and on a slow week, to heading off the next likely annoyance.
* I didn't look at the survey. Cabooms are less likely if you have diesels.

Sounds like with some reasonable care, the boat could serve you well... except...


Weíre liquidating all our assets to do this and the sum total of those assets isnít going to be a lot (and borrowing money is not an option for us) - so any boat we buy is going to be a project and thatís OK.

That would be a total deal killer for me. Your risk tolerance may be very high, (and you would need to share a similar risk tolerance with your sig other for this to work)... but for me, I would not want to liquidate all my assets to buy even a house -- something that could be counted upon to appreciate and that has lower carrying/maintenance costs than a boat. It's the whole eggs in baskets thing.

However, you are you. The boat sounds awesome. I'm an old fart, and my risk tolerance has changed over the many years. A younger me might have jumped for such a lifestyle.

lengthen
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Old 23-12-2020, 16:16   #79
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

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Originally Posted by mark0978 View Post
I wouldn't buy a wooden hulled boat for any amount of money. We have better materials for that now....


No doubt, one that doesnít feel comfortable buying or working on a wooden boat shouldnít do it. For those that are comfortable with wood, it is one of if not the strongest boat building material pound for pound.
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Old 23-12-2020, 16:17   #80
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

Oops, not intending to shout, just to distinguish your post from mine.
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Old 24-12-2020, 11:40   #81
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

I've burnt a 48' footer. It was built correctly but time and condensation had taken it's toll.
If it had been something like an Elco flat top or an old Consolidated I would have given it to someone into wooden boats.
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Old 24-12-2020, 13:46   #82
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

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I've burnt a 48' footer. It was built correctly but time and condensation had taken it's toll.
If it had been something like an Elco flat top or an old Consolidated I would have given it to someone into wooden boats.
Here's a nice flat top.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/192...yacht-2986044/

Beautiful boats. This one, given $40,000/year in maintenance, should be still going strong in another hundred years.

This newer Elco, also pretty, would be nice for the occasional dinner cruise, but even it is for someone with a different lifestyle and priorities than mine.

In both cases, I suppose it would be nice to know someone who has one. Kind of the "nice place to visit... wouldn't want to live there" thing.
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Old 24-12-2020, 14:32   #83
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

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Here's a nice flat top.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/192...yacht-2986044/

Beautiful boats. This one, given $40,000/year in maintenance, should be still going strong in another hundred years.

This newer Elco, also pretty, would be nice for the occasional dinner cruise, but even it is for someone with a different lifestyle and priorities than mine.

In both cases, I suppose it would be nice to know someone who has one. Kind of the "nice place to visit... wouldn't want to live there" thing.
I was speaking of a 50' Elco flat top. A friend had one and ended up buying a Clorox bottle after finding out the maintenance involve with wood. The flat top can be seen in the movie, I think was, " The creature from the black lagoon".
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Old 24-12-2020, 16:09   #84
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

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I was speaking of a 50' Elco flat top. A friend had one and ended up buying a Clorox bottle after finding out the maintenance involve with wood. The flat top can be seen in the movie, I think was, " The creature from the black lagoon".
That first link is to a 50' flat top, 1929. You can buy it for less than $400,000!

When I said "this one... " I was referring to the boat link above, rather than the picture below ... misleading. You should take a look at the Yachtworld listing -- nicely restored with all the right fabrics, etc.
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Old 25-12-2020, 07:59   #85
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

Just keep looking. Unless you are an experienced boat carpenter you will be financially broken by the demands of a 50 year old wooden boat. Hell, even a fiberglass GB can be a bottomless money pit.

You havenít even mentioned the condition of the propulsion system, the fuel tanks, the Navionics and batteries, the decks, etc!
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Old 25-12-2020, 09:28   #86
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

Okay, everyone before this necrothread reanimates, please read Post #75.

No further advice required...
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Old 25-12-2020, 12:56   #87
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Re: Should I avoid this boat?

A lot of comments from those who have never built wooden boats professionally.
Iíve built in every material but steel and wood can be solid or a worm and rot farm. Get an inspector who is qualified by USCG to inspect wood passenger vessels and has built wooden boats. Not an auxiliary inspector. Someone who has actually worked as a professional builder in wooden vessels.
There are professional boatbuilders who specialize in wood boat restoration.
Itís becoming more difficult and expensive to maintain much smaller vessels but it is not impossible to learn how to do this...no question, itís a huge commitment in time and money. For example, the antifouling. I would not use copper coat. You could felt and copper sheet the bottom...look this up and you will see how very expensive the materials are and the huge number of hours of backbreaking work.
Iíve know one builder who literally takes apart small daysailor Herreshoff boats and restores them perfectly but it would be less expensive to build new.
Wood is an excellent material if you have the skills, time and funds. Lots of skills. Lots of money. Lots of time.
Find a wood boat builder to look at what you consider and please listen to the advice. Then consider how much time and money will be involved because for a vessel this size, it will be considerable.
Good luck and Merry Christmas.
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