Selene vs Nordhavn

[lorenzo b]

Although I'm new to cruising, it's my understanding that yearly maintenance costs run about 10% of a boat's value. The more expensive the boat, the more expensive the maintenance. I do not believe $50,000 per year is a realistic budget if you include all your living expenses, fuel and oil, travel etc and maintenance on a million dollar boat.
When we first started looking at trawlers we checked out a few Nordhavens but could not imagine living in such tight quarters, no matter how slick and polished. We ended up rebuilding a La. shrimpboat to our needs and are very happy. Of course we are living like crazy hippies, but hey, that's who we are.

[Highlander40]

My Vote goes to the Krogen Express. Outrun a storm or just stay sane.

[Highlander40]

Bill, A lot of posters are recommending caution.

some things to think about.
Do you travel far afield in the 42' er you have now?

My boat is fast, so many say I have no perspective on slow cruising.
I do kayak a lot though and I can tell you that the most interesting parts of a trip are close to shore. The middle part of a long open water passage is no fun. Sometimes it's just scary.

A faster boat that can be trucked or shipped by boat will get you to a lot of places around the world. At the same time being more suited to the job at hand, more often than a boat that is optimized for that long boring, scary part in the middle.

Just my 2 cents

[Bill Lee]

Thanks for all the replies and sorry for the delayed response. Some of my thoughts: I think a 4 year old N47 will sell in the mid to high 700's - and they're solid boats. I don't know the all the maintenance costs but assuming I do all the oil changes (etc...) the boat and its systems are fairly bullet proof - if you know what the significant expenses are - tell me. I've heard teh 10% figure and its certainly NOT true for my 42' Silverton. I like cats - my research on that issue is relatively poor - anecdotal. However, in the PNW moorage for cats would be tough so cats are out for me and the admiral. My current boat is fast. It'll cruise all day at 26 knots at a relatively low gph. It has 200 gallons of water and 524 gallons of diesel so the range is huge. We use it year round in the PNW. Admittedly, in the winter - its just day outing and overnights to downtown Vancouver (fun but not far since I live on the North Shore). We're out on our boat 60 days each summer and cruise extensively during the summer. We like to go far and fast because of having kids. Our boat is fabulous but I wouldn't want to pilot it up and down the coast to Mexico from the PNW and back - however well it handles we'd likely see scary stuff and would be safer in a trawler. OTOH - you're right - the boat could be trucked....But trawlers have more room for liveaboard. I could liveaboard my boat but I think the Admiral would like more room for something f/t... Great help here all - so thanks and keep it coming. Much to think about. Thanks,
Bill

[Cruisingdad]

Nordhavn!! For sure!!! Of course, read any of my posts on Sailnet and you would know that.

I am actually a fan of the 46 with fish versus stabilizers. The wife and I were struggling (even last night) with the same question, well, almost: Whether to buy a late model N46 and hit the cruising kitty pretty hard or just keep the C400 and take it easy. This discussion has been going on for over a year now. One of these days I might actually make a decision!! Or is that a decision?? I am so confused. HEHE! Good luck with it. Also check out the Cape Horn. We wer eon one in Ft Lauderdale. Nice boat. Very solid. Not sure if they had some issue with the bulbous keel though (I heard that through a source).

Brian

PS We lost offers on 2 N46's and a Krogen 42. You are right about the lines on the Krogen though, not as pretty. But she is a more comfortable boat and I personally believe the engine room is superior. However, it does not have a seperate wing and that always bothered me. The N46 is pretty close to my heart... I am just having a problem with giving up sailing (and the cost).

[Highlander40]

As much as I like to go fast, I do feel the Nordhavn is better than the Selene.
When Selene was starting out in the states, they hired a local guy (not saying who) to help work out the bugs. The guys in the yard were saying that the boat had a lot of problems.
That doesn't mean that they havent fixed everything but the Nordhavn has homegrown DNA, even if it is built over there.

Charter first.

When our son was small 4-5 yrs, we found that he would sleep on the boat ride home so we went real slow to stretch out the nap. At 16 kts
the trip took twice as long but we were still passing a lot of boats.
My actual comment at the time was "those poor bastards, I would shoot myself in the head, going so slow"

[fishwife]

On the faster or slower question, I suppose it depends on why you go to sea. For me the journey is just as important as the destination, perhaps the journey is more important in my case Compared to many a cruising sail boat, my boat is quite fast.
A widely accepted average speed for a cruising sailing yacht is 4 to 5 knots, I can expect to average 7 knots when I'm being really economical to extend the boats range and 8 knots when range is a little less critical. Ya pays ya money and takes yer choice

P.

[Bill Lee]

I like the N46's too - and have been reading VoE (Voyage of Egret - the Flanders' adventures on their Nordhavn 46). That boat is wonderful but however perfect it is - they still wish for just a little more. Given my anticipated budget - I'm guessing an N47 (to a 53 Selene) would be as big as I could afford. I also know that I should get the smallest boat I'm prepared to live on - hence an N47 (always puzzles me why the used N43's seem more expensive than a similarly aged N47 - ahh well - that's another thread....). As you can tell - I'm leaning more towards the Nordhavn. Too be honest - I've talked and met one of the Nordy salesman at the recent Seattle boat show. I also checked out the Selene's and have not ruled them out. I'm about 75% in favour of the Nordhavn. In terms of speed - that's just a function of my current stage in life. I'm happy at sea: anchoring preferred over docking. Everything 'boaty' is good. I like the planning, the provisioning, the maintenance, operating the boat - its ALL good. I can't wait to go slow - you gotta admit - that's a funny expression! I still think I'm more interested in the destination - but I also like the trip - its the admiral who is anticipating that the trip may be...unappreciated. Yes - I need to get her AND I crewing or chartering. Again, thanks for the posts....Cheers,
Bill

[JayCall]

Bill-I would definitely check out Krogen. I have done a tremendous amount of research over several years as well as having many years of experience. There are build quality issues with the Selene. While they are trying to improve these issues, they are still there. If you are in the PNW. check with Townsend Bay Marine, they have done a lot of work on Selenes. They Selene is substantially cheaper, but in my book, not worth it. I am not a Nordhavn fan. I dislike the drystack, I think they are massively overbuilt and I do not like the lines. That said, they are an ok boat and will serve pretty well. The whole idea of a wing engine is ridiculous to me. In any kind of seas, a 60-70 hp engine with a sail prop is not going to move a 140,000lb boat (Nords are really heavy!) anywhere. If you are that cconcerned, get twin engines. Krogens are well built with quality components, well supported and very comfortable boats on the water, smooth or rough. I think the most efficient space usage around. They hold their value quite well. Krogen has a new office on the north shore of Lake Union so you can check them out.

Good Luck

[Bill Lee]

Hi Jaycall,
Thanks for the post. I've had several missives expressing concerns about Selene's and this tells me I've got to check out those concerns. How do you like your KK? New or previously enjoyed? How did you option it out? cheers,
Bill

[JayCall]

Bill:

I am just in the process of acquiring a KK 58. I am probably picking up their demo boat so it is already pretty loaded except for electronics. Having a cabin modification done, price quoted for this by KK was much lower than I had expected. I have been without for about 10 years, before that, had old 65' Trumpy-wooden, cockpit MY for more than a few years. I have been on and around boats almost all my life and rebuilt old wooden MY's for about 6 years. I have invested a lot of time researching. My standard was simple-go anywhere we want to, be as reliable as a boat can be, be comfortable in a seaway, be as inexpensive as possible to operate, be well supported and have systems with very wide parts availability. Lastly, a company willing to spend as much time as needed for me to learn all there is to know about the boat and its systems as I do virtually all my own work. For us value, within reason of course, was low on the list. I found I could go from about $1.4 to about $3.5 M for a new boat. From a standard, cookie cutter to a designed, custom built. For us, Krogen met our requirements better than any other and was a good value to boot.

[gbanker]

We owned a Selene 48. if we got another trawler it would be a Nordhavn. There is a difference in price and a corresponding difference in quality (IMHO).
Knowing that no boat is perfect, I would rather address issues on a higher quality boat.

[Bill Lee]

Ok Gbanker,
fess up - I need specifics. What specifically irked you about the Selene and why Nordhavn (bear in mind that I'm already leaning towards Nordhavn - I just want as much information aspossible - probably to justify the extra cost)? All info is helpful. Thanks and Cheers,
Bill

[RaySea Lady]

If you are generally looking at coastal cruising you should consider a Bluewater, as fuel efficient as a trawler at 8 knots when operated at displacement speeds, but still has the ability to get on plane and to 23mph if needed. Plus you have tons of living space, great liveaboard.

I know I have looked at several trawlers but none offered the advantages of the Bluewater for what I wanted to do.

I brought mine up to the great lakes from Charleston SC and it was great.

Best of luck in your research.

[Bill Lee]

Hi RaySea Lady,
Thanks for your post and suggestions. Out of curiosity, When relocating your yacht for any significant distance do you ship her or motor along to your next far off destination? I have no interest in passagemaking itself. But I may have to do so and didn't want to rely on dockwise (or other transport). I also wanted to be safe for those 'just in case' weather scenarios.... Any thoughts or suggestions are most welcome. Cheers,
Bill