Selene vs Nordhavn

[gbanker]

You want to be careful about high speed "trawlers" due to rudder size. Rudders are sized to the normal operating speed on a vessel. That means that typically smaller rudders are used on higher speed boats and larger rudders are used on lower speed boats. Practically, this means that if one is in a high speed 'trawler" and going at low speeds , due to bad weather/waves, etc., there may not be enough rudder to maintain control. Just a thought.

[Bill Lee]

Thanks cat man do and gbanker. Good point regarding the smaller rudder issue on the Express. However nice that Express is (and I will check it out) its not quite the dream boat - but a very good option (as would a Marlow). As to cat man do's point - the PNW does have sudden and unpredicted weather. Sometimes the forecast from all sources concur that there will be horrible weather/seas and its flat and calm. Other times the opposite. Micro climates exist in many places. We got caught once in a thunderstorm that developed literally in minutes without any forecasted warnings. We saw some darkish clouds develop on a clear summer's day (checked the VHF, internet, Environment Canada) and there were no warnings. 20 minutes later: deluge. rain in the extreme. wind. waves. in one minute our none to small dinghy was swamped. Sometimes rough seas remain after a storm and the local weather looks calm. Safety first! As to the amount of time spent traveling - we don't know what that will be. We want to safely travel when we want to travel (of course subject to mother nature's whims). Logic and emotion sometimes do coincide Cheers,
Bill

[fatty]

What about a Fleming 55? These are similar I guess to the Selene but very solid, twin engines and look great.

[Highlander40]

More important than rudder size, is the design of the hull. For years I have heard about evil handling boats in following seas etc.

My boat hull was designed by Ray Hunt with some tweeks by Ted Hood.
The boat has NO rudders or skegs yet will run in huge seas on auto pilot.
I have never felt a hint of a broach even surfing big rollers at 38 Knots.

Pick a boat that is designed well and you will be happy, no matter the speed.

[Bill Lee]

Hi fatty and Highlander40,
Flemings are beautiful boats but not full displacement. They're more akin to Offshore, Outter Reef, or Marlow's. I agree that buying a well built boat is the key - hence this thread. There have been concerns in this thread about Selene's and the only concern about the Nordhavn was that it was overbuilt - hardly a criticism - but wisdom none-the-less - careful spending oodles of money for a boat unless you'll be using it according to its' intent. I'm surprised no Selene fans have come forward to espouse 'their' brand or to explain the concerns of some of the posts...
Cheers,
Bill

[Ray2]

"I'm surprised no Selene fans have come forward to espouse 'their' brand"

A bit late but I'll chime in. I've also looked at Selene's and took a pass on them. The boat was right for our intended use, coastal, but I had a few concerns and at the price it would have cost, took a pass. I too was somewhat frustrated about my inability to access knowledgeable comments about the boat.

You've seen the above comments from the yards' workers.

I took a Selene 36' up the ICW a couple of years ago. We hit 35 knot headwinds off the cape while running offshore. We did that for 2 days then headed in. On board was a captain with trans-atlantic experience and a crew with the same experience. Could the boat have made it, sure, but it was not worth the work.

Gorgeous accommodations.

I spent many days at the helm. Does not respond well.

I read a log of two elderly boaters who took their Selene 36 around the loop. They sat out windy days and 2 to 3 foot seas. No reason given, perhaps age, perhaps the boat was not giving them the sense of security they needed.

All of the 36' thru 49' hulls are being, or have been, redesigned. These are relatively new boats, I'd like to know why. Note, the models have been renamed to a higher number but the specs read within inches of each other. You can draw your own conclusions about the type of people you are dealing with. I know this happens in this industry but that's hardly comfort to me.

I am in no way sufficiently experienced to comment in place of a Selene owner. However, given the price of the boat and your offshore desires, you are dealing with an expensive boat with no discernible reputation one way or the other.

And, I'd be really surprised if $50k/year (excluding on-shore legacy costs) cuts it. We're not in a position where we need to look at what we spend and I perhaps tend to prefer caution to saving a buck but there's no way I could do a year on $50k in the kinds of boat you're considering. My after purchase maintenance and upgrades of an otherwise solid boat would blow away a few years of your budget.

[speciald@ocens.]

I've been looking to downsize to a "fast " trawler to use in the Carbbean for short trips and rare inter-island trips. "Fast" means 12-15 kts. The problem I see is sea-worthiness. We are used to our 65k pound sailboat stabilized with sails with an engine that burns 2+ g/hr at 7-8 knots under power and sails faster; we did Hampton to Tortola (1400-1500 miles) in 6.5 days last year (that's better than 8kts average). Try doing that in a Nordhavn. I'm sitting next to a small Nordhavn this Summer - boy is it ugly. Our boat (see avitar) was built by the same yard, Ta Shing and is much better looking. We are looking at a 2006 45 ft Symbol at the moment,; the current owner added stabilizers two years ago which makes me wonder why. We will keep the boat in Oyster Pond, Sint Maarten. Seas at the entrance probably average 3-4 feet. I'm still weighing the pros and cons of going to power or keeping our Taswell.

[Bill Lee]

Hi Ray2 and speciald@ocens,
I know what my current boating budget is and its monsterous. I was hoping that with a newish trawler I could reduce my expenses - I don't know how realistic that is... When retired I expect a drop in income..... As to 7-8 knots in a sailboat - my view is that there are advantages to a trawler (and disadvantages). Speed is NOT an advantage. Reliable speed is (the wind isn't always blowing, nor blowing in the right direction). Simplicity is important. So is commfort. Its a personal preference too. I don't know how to sail.... Cheers,
Bill