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Old 19-04-2017, 20:11   #1
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Resource for understanding cruiser design

I am trying to understand the different advantages and disadvantages of different ship designs, mostly for trawlers, but also for other types of cruising yachts.

I have the book "Principles of Yacht Design" by Larsson, which is helpful in understanding some of the fundamentals. But, I really would like to have something that will explain all the different types of integrated designs and their characteristics, including discussion of engines, etc.

For example, the Grand Banks are trawlers, but so are Nordhavns, yet they have very different designs, so I need some kind of book that can explain how to understand the differences between these designs and how those differences translate to performance at sea and operating characteristics.

Thanks for any suggestions.
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Old 19-04-2017, 20:41   #2
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

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For example, the Grand Banks are trawlers, but so are Nordhavns
Technically neither one is a trawler as neither is capable of pulling a trawl net.
You are falling prey to marketing nomenclature rather than fact.

The Nordhavn does have a displacement hull somewhat similar to a real "trawler" hull but the Grand Banks is a semi-planing hull which doesn't even come close.
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Old 19-04-2017, 21:17   #3
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

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Originally Posted by jsc7 View Post
I am trying to understand the different advantages and disadvantages of different ship designs, mostly for trawlers, but also for other types of cruising yachts.

I have the book "Principles of Yacht Design" by Larsson, which is helpful in understanding some of the fundamentals. But, I really would like to have something that will explain all the different types of integrated designs and their characteristics, including discussion of engines, etc.

For example, the Grand Banks are trawlers, but so are Nordhavns, yet they have very different designs, so I need some kind of book that can explain how to understand the differences between these designs and how those differences translate to performance at sea and operating characteristics.

Thanks for any suggestions.
If you're still primarily focused on the Boston to Martha's to Bar Harbor run, then any trawler will be fine. However, if you have excess bread to burn, then the sky's the limit. Spend away!

Oh... and please don't forget what I told you about radar. Maine is full of rocks that love to chew up boats in the fog.
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Old 19-04-2017, 21:20   #4
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

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Technically neither one is a trawler as neither is capable of pulling a trawl net.
You are falling prey to marketing nomenclature rather than fact.

The Nordhavn does have a displacement hull somewhat similar to a real "trawler" hull but the Grand Banks is a semi-planing hull which doesn't even come close.
This is what I would like to understand better. Is there a book that explains all these things?
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Old 19-04-2017, 21:44   #5
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

Voyaging under Power by Rbt. Beebe might be a good start. Apparently he wrote one of the first books on the subject. I have no opinion on the quality or appropriateness of his info as I am a dyed in the wool sailor. Motors are for getting in an out of marinas and getting home for work on Monday or the end of vacation.
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Old 19-04-2017, 22:44   #6
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

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I am trying to understand the different advantages and disadvantages of different ship designs, mostly for trawlers, but also for other types of cruising yachts.
The most important issue in boat design is whether it has an easily accessible bollard so that you can take it under tow without stepping on board.
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Old 20-04-2017, 06:41   #7
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

What are you planning to use the boat for? Assuming you plan to spend some time on it, be it weekends or full-time, the living spaces should be a big factor in fitting a boat to your personal preferences.

There are some generalized categories of hull designs, like displacement, semi-displacement, and catamaran. The differences are fairly obvious. If you develop a preference, that helps limit your search. But the finer details are a pretty minor point.

There are larger issues. How many engines? How much room to work in the mechanical spaces? The quality, quantity and age of electronic equipment and "creature comfort" amenities. One head or two? One stateroom or two? Does it have a comfy place to sit down? Separate shower? Do you need room for entertaining? Overnight guests?

Finally, the finish is important to some. Is it a modern brass-and-glass interior? Classic look? Euro-style?
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Old 20-04-2017, 07:26   #8
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

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What are you planning to use the boat for? Assuming you plan to spend some time on it, be it weekends or full-time, the living spaces should be a big factor in fitting a boat to your personal preferences.

There are some generalized categories of hull designs, like displacement, semi-displacement, and catamaran. The differences are fairly obvious. If you develop a preference, that helps limit your search. But the finer details are a pretty minor point.

There are larger issues. How many engines? How much room to work in the mechanical spaces? The quality, quantity and age of electronic equipment and "creature comfort" amenities. One head or two? One stateroom or two? Does it have a comfy place to sit down? Separate shower? Do you need room for entertaining? Overnight guests?

Finally, the finish is important to some. Is it a modern brass-and-glass interior? Classic look? Euro-style?
Right, those are some of the things I trying to understand. It is complicated enough that I have not found web resources that are sufficiently explanatory, so I am looking for books that go into detail.

With the help of a previous poster to this thread I have found two books so far and ordered them:

Coastal Cruising Under Power by Gene Hamilton

Voyaging Under Power by Robert Beebe

I suspect these books will go a long way to answering a lot of the questions I might have about nautical architectures for cruising.
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Old 20-04-2017, 07:30   #9
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

Note that CruisersForum.com (Sailing) has a sister forum:
"http://www.trawlerforum.com".

That may be a good resource for you since you have a lot of trawler and powerboat questions.
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Old 20-04-2017, 07:50   #10
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

you also might want to check out George Buehler's website. (http://georgebuehler.com/) He's got a lot of drawings right up on his website.


One of his pet peeves is calling reacreational craft trawlers or even trying to mimic trawlers designs. He subscribed to the troller design which is just as heavy displacement, but is more long and skinny and needs far less horse power to get the boat up and moving.


Trawlers don't use horsepower to get the boat moving, they use horsepower to drag a huge seine or purse through the water. A boat designed like a trawler isn't going to go anywhere fast.
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Old 20-04-2017, 08:50   #11
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

Buy a copy of "The Nature of Boats" by Dave Gerr. Excellent, wide ranging, easy to read and very clear. Gerr is the director of the Westlawn Institute of Yacht Design, has a well regarded design firm and is a good author. This is the best book available for increasing your understanding about the various factors in yacht design.
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Old 20-04-2017, 09:05   #12
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc7 View Post
I am trying to understand the different advantages and disadvantages of different ship designs, mostly for trawlers, but also for other types of cruising yachts.

I have the book "Principles of Yacht Design" by Larsson, which is helpful in understanding some of the fundamentals. But, I really would like to have something that will explain all the different types of integrated designs and their characteristics, including discussion of engines, etc.

For example, the Grand Banks are trawlers, but so are Nordhavns, yet they have very different designs, so I need some kind of book that can explain how to understand the differences between these designs and how those differences translate to performance at sea and operating characteristics.

Thanks for any suggestions.
Just because they are called a trawler many are not. Anyone ever see a planning hull dragging a trawl?
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Old 20-04-2017, 10:04   #13
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

Quote: "Is there a book that explains all these things?"

No. there is not "'a book". There are hundreds. The way you ask the question I suspect you may have been felled by the "capitalist tools" that are the "yachting press", the "glossies". I don't look at those often, but when I do, I find the advertising by Nordhavn particularly egregious.

The reasons for that are many, but they sort of resolve themselves into an acute cognitive dissonance engendered by Nordhavn's insistence that you should "take it all with you" when MY motivation for going cruising is to "get away from it all". Nordhavns are NOT trawlers, or anything LIKE a trawler, or any other kind of working vessel. They are floating condominiums of a kind particularly injurious to the attainment of a just society and the proper functioning of it.

I get my skivvies in a knot about that because in the northern reaches of My Beloved Adopted Land the are whole villages - "reservations" - of indigenous peoples that do not have uncontaminated drinking water. For the price of a 50-foot Nordhavn you could buy a village a water maker of adequate capacity! Well, that isn't your problem to solve, but you get my drift.

I also react very strongly to the purloining of my first language to conceal from the unvary that the vessel in question is totally unsuitable for operation in northern waters.

So back to boats and knowledge thereof: You asked for books that would familiarize you with the fundamentals. You've already had a number of sound volumes suggested to you. Add to those Francis Kinney's Skeene's Elements of Yacht Design. Lots of copies available for cheap on Amazon. Someone mentioned Westlawn School of Yacht Design. Kinney used to be their introductory text. None better.

If you like reading "glossies", no reason you shouldn't read Yachting. Subcribe even! But you will learn much more about boats and yachting much faster if you were to spend your money on a subscription to Woodenboat instead. In every single issue there are valuable articles regardless of whether your momentary interest is construction, navigation, marlinspike seamanship, engine maintenance, electrical systems or anything else you care to mention. What you find in Woodenboat is applicable to every kinda boat, even "frozen snot" ones!

And just for the record: TrentePieds is a "frozen snot" boat. I would never have a boat made from anything else :-)!

TP



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Old 21-04-2017, 14:02   #14
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

Thanks for all the input on this. I am a 79 year old sailor but I can see in the future I am going to have to change over. From sails to power. So I can start reading up on this transaction and hopefully make a good decision. Thanks again for the thread and good advice.
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Old 21-04-2017, 15:03   #15
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Re: Resource for understanding cruiser design

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Thanks for all the input on this. I am a 79 year old sailor but I can see in the future I am going to have to change over. From sails to power. So I can start reading up on this transaction and hopefully make a good decision. Thanks again for the thread and good advice.
Get a displacement hull, easily driven with a small diesel. A sailboat without sails and large tankage.
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