Need advice regarding a trawler

[Joh.Ghurt]

Walk away! A boat owner refusing to have 3rd party liability insurance will cut other corners too, specially with maintenance and repair quality. Not having insurance for the boat itself is an approach that can justified an limited to the value of the boat, but being willing to risk multiple million claims from damages I do to others is inexcusable. The only argument here is, I'm so broke that there's nothing to get and so it won't be my problem. With this attitude this would be a person to avoid.

Without having seen the boat, by this fact alone I'd be willing to bet money the boat is a mess.

[flyingfin]

Simple, just do the math.
where X = 2021 less 1970 (in years)
and purchase price (P) plus Replacement (R) cost of twin diesels, fuel tanks and controls = Your Money (Y)

and Z = amount of $$ in your bank account

Solve for your pain tolerance!

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by flyingfin

Simple, just do the math.
[... some variables deleted ...]
Solve for your pain tolerance!

Also don't forget to factor in the fuel efficiency in gph of the engines dating back half a century. Modern engines use less gas.

[Left Coaster]

Hi Moretolife. Sorry, but the more I read, the more red flags are being waived and no liability insurance is a big red flag to me. My unpaid advice: look elsewhere.

By the way: Have you checked to see if you can get the boat insured. There's a strong chance that you may not be able to due to the boat's age and your boating/boat owning history.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Moretolife

The seller just said he used to insure it when he bought it few years ago, then stopped because he felt it’s money grabbing…he has no liability coverage or any insurance. The boat hasn’t been insured for some years by now, he won’t tell me how long. He was trying to push me buying it without any survey, telling me it’s a great boat and I can do the survey after…I refused and now he gives me hard time because it’s hard to find mechanics to do sea trial without insurance , nor to find marina to haul it out without insurance. His first price was $95 cad , then he dropped it to $70k for me…but I feel it should be $40k the most, but because I’m not familiar with the boats market I am having hard time to price it. I don’t want to lose the boat because I offered too little, nor would want to pay more than it worth…

I don't even know where to begin. There's a red flag, or two, in every sentence above.

I think your feeling on price is accurate, maybe even a bit high, assuming a boat that age in average condition (i.e.; not great but repairable.) I suspect you'll find this boat is in far below average condition.

The reality is, you shouldn't buy it until you have an insurance binder, and you won't get one of those without a survey. No matter what kind of BS the seller slings at you, or how much you fall in love with the boat, the fact is you simply can't buy it under that seller's terms.

[boatpoker]

You need to learn a little bit more about boats before you open your wallet.

Suggest you start here ...
Marine Survey 101

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Moretolife

The seller just said he used to insure it when he bought it few years ago, then stopped because he felt it’s money grabbing…he has no liability coverage or any insurance. The boat hasn’t been insured for some years by now, he won’t tell me how long. He was trying to push me buying it without any survey, telling me it’s a great boat and I can do the survey after…I refused and now he gives me hard time because it’s hard to find mechanics to do sea trial without insurance , nor to find marina to haul it out without insurance. His first price was $95 cad , then he dropped it to $70k for me…but I feel it should be $40k the most, but because I’m not familiar with the boats market I am having hard time to price it. I don’t want to lose the boat because I offered too little, nor would want to pay more than it worth…

Sounds like you have been bitten by the "but-I-love-this-boat" bug - the owner sees this and is playing you.

This boat is a BIG NO.

For all of the reasons everyone has stated.

Sorry to disappoint, but it's going to be nothing but headaches - and the fact that it hasn't been able to get insurance in years (don't listen to the owner's "money-grabbing" claim) should be a HUGE red flag. [Imagine this flag is RED, not white]


LittleWing77

[Moretolife]

Can someone please let me know what will be the approximate cost of upgrading all the electronics as they are all original from 1970, to bring the boat to fit our times…?

Also, I’ve been told that I might need to bring the boat “up to code” in regards to septic and electrical wiring. Did someone do it to tell me if it’s big work and its approximate cost?

I’m trying to see if at the end of the day I’ll be left with a bottomless hole in my pocket and a beautiful boat I won’t be able to use much , except of working on it…

Thank you so much for the help

[Joh.Ghurt]

Septic tank is often a mess to install.

On many boats, the wiring is added before the interior is installed, thus making it often impossible to change / remove wires. You might have to run new wires in new routes.

On my boat I have 3 layers of cables. One that was installed with the hull before insulation was added. These are often impossible work with, I usually have to just cut them off and leave the inaccessible parts. The second layer was added during the interior installation. For the major part, they can be changed, but require major head-scratching how to access them and where are they clamped down behing the wood panelling. In some cases pieces of the interior have been glued in after running the cables and are impossible to reach. It's never as easy as just pulling the new cable in with the old one into a duct. And the last layer has been added later and the most easy to work with. All in all not pretty.

Expect the same. If you have to do those jobs, this is a project-boat. Stay away!

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Moretolife

Can someone please let me know what will be the approximate cost of upgrading all the electronics as they are all original from 1970, to bring the boat to fit our times…?

Also, I’ve been told that I might need to bring the boat “up to code” in regards to septic and electrical wiring. Did someone do it to tell me if it’s big work and its approximate cost?

I’m trying to see if at the end of the day I’ll be left with a bottomless hole in my pocket and a beautiful boat I won’t be able to use much , except of working on it…

Thank you so much for the help

Hi, you dont say where you are, however the best way to assess the costs is to price the parts required, from wherever you can find the best pricing, double it and add ten percent. Welcome to boating.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Moretolife

Can someone please let me know what will be the approximate cost of upgrading all the electronics as they are all original from 1970, to bring the boat to fit our times…?



Also, I’ve been told that I might need to bring the boat “up to code” in regards to septic and electrical wiring. Did someone do it to tell me if it’s big work and its approximate cost?



I’m trying to see if at the end of the day I’ll be left with a bottomless hole in my pocket and a beautiful boat I won’t be able to use much , except of working on it…



Thank you so much for the help

Bottomless , working on it , yep welcome to project boats.

Really unless you really really know what you are doing , run very far away

Just an electronics upgrade including radar and maybe Ap hardware could set up back 15-20k

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Moretolife

Can someone please let me know what will be the approximate cost of upgrading all the electronics as they are all original from 1970, to bring the boat to fit our times…?



Also, I’ve been told that I might need to bring the boat “up to code” in regards to septic and electrical wiring. Did someone do it to tell me if it’s big work and its approximate cost?



I’m trying to see if at the end of the day I’ll be left with a bottomless hole in my pocket and a beautiful boat I won’t be able to use much , except of working on it…



Thank you so much for the help

If you know nothing about boats, this isn’t the boat for you.

The seller not having insurance means you can’t haul it out for a Pre purchase survey (unless you find a yard that doesn’t ask)

The seller hasn’t upgraded the boat, maintained liability insurance on the boat, who know what else hasn’t been done.

Do you own tools? Are you savvy whith wires and tubes? Would you hire out the labor? Do you expect to resell this boat in a few years and make back your money?

This is a weird time to be a boat buyer. Everyone and their dog is wanting to buy a boat. Boats right now that are selling for 150K wouldn’t have sold, or would have sold for 50k just a year or two ago. Just based on where the market is and where it’s likely to go….you’d be overpaying.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Moretolife

Can someone please let me know what will be the approximate cost of upgrading all the electronics as they are all original from 1970, to bring the boat to fit our times…?

Also, I’ve been told that I might need to bring the boat “up to code” in regards to septic and electrical wiring. Did someone do it to tell me if it’s big work and its approximate cost?

I’m trying to see if at the end of the day I’ll be left with a bottomless hole in my pocket and a beautiful boat I won’t be able to use much , except of working on it…

Yes, it'll end up being a bottomless hole... but that'd pretty much the definition of any boat.

Electronics costs can be all over the map, largely because of what one person might choose over another, but you can come up with an estimate for each part and then add the equipment costs:
- depth sounder
- VHF radio
- chartplotter/MFD (with GPS)
- autopilot
- radar?
- AIS transceiver?
- redundancies? (depth, VHF, etc.)
You could get MSRPs from a maker's site, Garmin, Raymarine, Furuno, etc.

Then figure $100/hour for installation, maybe make a guess that it'll take 10 hours... mostly about fishing wires.

I replaced our holding tank and all the hoses a few years ago, a relatively simple one-toilet system (didn't replace the electric freshwater toilet) and it probably came in at under $1500 with me doing all of my own labor.

Re the insurance issue: as others have said, probably nobody will haul the boat for a survey without insurance in place, you shouldn't buy without a survey, impasse. There are other boats.

-Chris

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Moretolife

I’m trying to see if at the end of the day I’ll be left with a bottomless hole in my pocket and a beautiful boat I won’t be able to use much , except of working on it…

Short answer, yes.

You are trying to justify buying a dream. We've all had this particular dream, and it doesn't end well. Boat yards are full of broken dreams. It takes a lot of will power to walk away from a "deal" like this, but you have to reign in your emotions and look at the facts.

Electronics and plumbing are not the issue. Depending on your level of DIY ability, you can get out of that for under $20K.

The electrical system is hard to know, without seeing it. Although there is no "code," there are ABYC standards which a surveyor and insurance companies will expect to be followed. Every boat goes through multiple upgrades where the owner adds electrical devices. Sometimes to standard, often not. Old wiring is often abandoned in place, and sometimes re-purposed. My boat was not even 40 years old when I bought it, and I hauled a dock cart full of abandoned wires to to the dumpster. There were a number of things I've had to repair and re-wire, from standards violations to downright safety risks. And I was lucky, a professional marine electrician had rewired a lot of it already for a previous owner, and that work could remain as-is. That's not usually the case. Assume a full re-wiring is required in your case, and get a quote from a pro for that.

And that's not the worst part. Engine rebuilds, deck delamination, water intrusion, rot around leaking windows and deck hardware, running gear corrosion, even canvas and vinyl work, could add up to more than the value of the boat when finished.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Moretolife

Can someone please let me know what will be the approximate cost of upgrading all the electronics as they are all original from 1970, to bring the boat to fit our times…?

I really don't wish to offend, but you apparently need someone to be really blunt with you...

DO NOT BUY THIS BOAT! It will suck up every dollar that you have, and STILL not be the "beautiful boat" that you are imagining! You need to spend a lot more time learning about boats, and studying the boat market. Otherwise you will only be THROWING AWAY YOUR MONEY!

Stop listening to the lies that the seller is telling you, stop listening to the sales pitch that the broker is giving you, and WALK AWAY!

Chalk this up to your first learning experience. Move on to your second learning experience. Don't buy a boat until you've had 10-12 learning experiences.

Now, if you foolishly go ahead and buy this boat, and later come back here to ask people, "How do I fix this, and what is wrong with that, and why is it so expensive?" then don't be surprised when we collectively say "WE TOLD YOU SO!"