Longevity of the new 4 cycle outboards ?

[tuffr2]

I think most modern outboards are direct injected too. That helps economy some. I agree, for the most part engines are built better with new designs and fewer moving parts. Again my friend had a 60 HP 4 cycle Yamaha on his pontoon boat that was super quiet. And this was at least 10 years ago. I think that engine was a MPI engine.



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[MicHughV]

My favorite engine of all time is the the 2 stroke 8 hp Yamaha.

What a jewel of an engine. It's not made anymore, though used one's can still be found.

That engine performed like a swiss watch for me, for as long as I owned it, 10 plus years. Ran like clock work ,no matter what I did....or didn't do to it.

You could pick it up with one hand and it performed way above it's weight, all the time, any time.

Fast forward several years, I have a fishing boat powered by twin Yamaha 150's....they are 4 stroke....fuel injected. They are claimed to be THE best 150 hp engine on the market and I have to say, I agree. They always start right up at the turn of the key, run like kittens at full bore all day long with nary a whimper.

I think most outboards, with even the barest of maintenance, are as reliable as one could hope for.

Consider that many outboards sit unused for a long time...weeks...months even...and still start right up.

I can't speak for all engine manufacturers, but Yamaha put out a good product and I suspect the same can be said of other manufacturers. Competition is fierce, and no manufactures wants to play second fiddle to another.

Finally, most outboards spend the majority of their running life at 5-6,000 rpm. Few car engines could likely match that. Throw in a salt water/air environment, and there is little to complain about.

[Chotu]

How important do you think the mandatory service intervals are on modern outboards? I’m just way too cheap to bring mine in. I cannot see bringing an outboard into a dealer. Taking it off the boat. Lugging it all the way there. I figured I would just do the normal service that we all have done since the dawn of time on our outboards. Is that good enough? Mine haven’t stopped working yet. Knock on wood.

[MicHughV]

I think the smaller engines can be serviced by an owner, without too much trouble. An outboard that sits unused for a long time, is almost certain to have problems and warrants a good going over.

I have a good friend of mine, that is a retired Yamaha tech, who offered to help me service my 150's one time.

It was quite a procedure that took most of the day for the two of us. Just to replace the impellers requires the lower units to be taken off, and the impeller housing dismantled, so the boat is placed on a rack. I suppose this could be done with the boat on a trailer.
Off course, the engine oil gets drained as well as the lube oil in the lower unit.
All the sparkplugs are replaced, as well as the thermostats, there are two of them.
Oil filter of course.
There were several other things as well, that I don't recall....fuel filters, etc...

Yahama's require a specific oil.....as does the lower end, plus all the other bits and pieces. I don't recall the total $$ amount but it was quite substantial. I seem to recall about $100 per engine....just for parts and oil.

Once everything gets re-assembled, the tech will take the boat out for a test spin.

I've had the local Yahama techs do it for me, and the charge for both engines is around $1,000. Having done it myself, it seems quite reasonable. Hourly rates for a Yahama tech runs about $150/hr these days. 4 hours of labor at these rates is $600....it can add up quickly.

The recommended service interval is 100 hours. These engines spend most of their running time at 4-6,000 rpm. The impellers on my engines looked worn at 100 hours, but could have lasted longer. I don't think 100 hours is set in stone, but I tend to err on the side of being conservative.

But who is to say. A problem 50 miles offshore for an outboard is a serious problem. These engines tend to sit unused for a long period of time. The impellers can take a set and get dry and brittle. Outboards often operate in muddy dirty water, and can suck sand, etc...though I have two engines, they could both have problems. A problem 50 miles offshore is not a problem I want to have.

When I'm fishing offshore, one engine is always running, when
I'm parked over a reef, etc...always...most fishermen adopt a similar tactic. There are a lot of electronics running all the time, a dead battery can spell a problem.

For a fisherman in your average center console....100 hours is about a years worth of run time...charter fishing boats, obviously run longer hours.

My best guess, based on my own experience, is that a fishing boat will get taken out every 3 weeks or so in the summer.....say 10-12 trips...at 6-10 hours per trip. Fishing is always very weather dependent.

Besides the engines...the batteries also need attention as they may sit unused for long periods of time.

Anyway, that's my 2c on the matter....

[Chotu]

Don’t you think that’s all pretty normal annual service though?

I do that stuff annually with all of my outboards.

I just remember there was a mandatory three year, 300 hour service that you had to bring the thing into a dealership to get done in order to keep the warranty working. I skipped that.

[MicHughV]

Hard to say. When I service a car, I basically only change the oil and filter, top up the washer fluids, check tire pressure, etc, but outboards are a different animal. They live in a very corrosive environment for one.

The lower unit on an outboard requires particular attention. It needs to be taken off, just to get to the impeller. There is a seal there on the prop hub, that requires attention, as this prevents lube oil from dripping out, etc.
I'm not an outboard mechanic, so can't really speak with any authority on the matter.

Typically outboards are used only sporadically, so this is where the difference may lie.

It may all just be sales bulls**t, just like a car service at your local Jiffy Lube, where they recommend an oil change every 3,000 miles..and try to sell you synthetic oil, etc...

For me, the difference is a safety issue. If my car breaks down, I can call a tow service or have someone pick me up, etc. While I can also call Seatow, range is a potential problem.

I know some charter captains that will use 300 hour service intervals, but they use their boats almost daily, which makes a difference.

I would love to hear an outboard mechanic chime in on this thread.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Hard to say. When I service a car, I basically only change the oil and filter, top up the washer fluids, check tire pressure, etc, but outboards are a different animal. They live in a very corrosive environment for one.

The lower unit on an outboard requires particular attention. It needs to be taken off, just to get to the impeller. There is a seal there on the prop hub, that requires attention, as this prevents lube oil from dripping out, etc.
I'm not an outboard mechanic, so can't really speak with any authority on the matter.

Typically outboards are used only sporadically, so this is where the difference may lie.

It may all just be sales bulls**t, just like a car service at your local Jiffy Lube, where they recommend an oil change every 3,000 miles..and try to sell you synthetic oil, etc...

For me, the difference is a safety issue. If my car breaks down, I can call a tow service or have someone pick me up, etc. While I can also call Seatow, range is a potential problem.

I know some charter captains that will use 300 hour service intervals, but they use their boats almost daily, which makes a difference.

I would love to hear an outboard mechanic chime in on this thread.

Ah. I don’t worry at all about safety issues with my outboards since each has completely redundancy combined with 3 backups to each outboard: A second outboard, sailing and hip-towing with the dinghy. Or in the case of the dinghy the outboard has secondary oars and a vhf and is used primarily in harbors.

But, I also don’t like them breaking down.

So annually, I change the impellers, gear oil, check thermostat and/or change it biannually, etc. Zincs are changed when they look bad.

I don’t do the prop shaft seal in the lower unit, but if it starts weeping oil, I’d just change that when it happens. Do people change those annually?

Sea tow:

I have never and will never call sea tow. I’ve lost steering in a monohull and not called sea tow. I limped to a cove, anchored and took the dinghy in for parts and hydraulic steering fluid.

Part of boating (to me) is self sufficiency. I have crazy redundancy on the new boat too. A pair of outboards means if one goes, there is still another one left. If they both go, there is sailing still. If the rig is gone and both outboards are miraculously destroyed, you can drop the dinghy and do a hip-tow. It’s almost endless how many options you have for getting to a safe anchorage.

With my current boat, I had no rig yet and lost both engines (fuel pump went) in the middle of the icw near Melbourne, fl.

That would usually mean the end, right? Wrong! It was a windy day (luckily). There was a reasonable stop about 4 bridges away, 7 miles or so in Galilee. Wind was from astern.

With no motors and no rig we SAILED at 3+ knots, with full steerage, under 4 bridges and down the ICW to the anchorage. I had to push the boat out of the channel into the anchorage with the dinghy because you can’t go to windward with no sails, but no sea tow. Ever! Ha ha ha.

[MicHughV]

Yep, when I first started playing with boats...there was no Seatow. I had quite a few times when I could have used this service, but always managed to find a way to extricate myself from the mess I found myself in.

I took up fishing only recently. There are times, when I'm way offshore and my sense of self preservation causes me to bite the bullet and get the engines serviced on a regular basis.

[rslifkin]

I also can't think of many situations where I couldn't get myself out of it without a tow. One exception might be if the weather is degrading, whatever I can do will take some time and I know there's a tow boat nearby. Then I'd be inclined to take the tow just to get to a better location before the weather comes in. I pay for the membership just in case (and to make sure they're available for all of the other idiots I'd otherwise end up helping out).

As far as just replacing certain parts on a schedule, it really depends on the part. If you can assess condition of it well enough, you can safely change the replacements to "as needed" in most cases. But if assessing condition is just as much work as replacement, or it's hard to determine condition, then it makes sense to replace on a schedule to avoid unexpected failures.

The longer you get to know a specific piece of equipment, the better your skills get at keeping it working reliably, as you get a better feel for how long things last, what's likely to give you trouble, what extra stuff to have on hand because you may break it or find it degraded while doing another job, etc.

[MicHughV]

true...what you say makes sense....every engine will require service of one kind sooner or later...if you are a gear head, you can probably monitor these things yourself...and take appropriate measures as needed...you are attuned to the many noises an engine makes and can probably tell a problem just from the noise..

on the other hand of the scale are countless people to whom an engine is just this big metal blob that makes noises. it is to these people that "recommended" service intervals are directed.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

true...what you say makes sense....every engine will require service of one kind sooner or later...if you are a gear head, you can probably monitor these things yourself...and take appropriate measures as needed...you are attuned to the many noises an engine makes and can probably tell a problem just from the noise..

on the other hand of the scale are countless people to whom an engine is just this big metal blob that makes noises. it is to these people that "recommended" service intervals are directed.

My beef was that the warranty required it. You had to uninstall these outboards, get a crane and move them off the boat. Find a truck. Put them in the truck and drive them to some authorized service center. At 300 hours. Ridiculous.

Certainly I do all my own engine work. And this thread reminded me I had to order a few things. Ha ha

[MicHughV]

Chotu,

You have a very unusual situation with your engines, where, I can see, that servicing them, can present a challenging problem.

But it's fair to say, that likely 99.99% of outboards are to be found on a transom of a fishing or other type of small boat, where gaining access to all the parts of engine is a relatively simple manner.

In your case, learning how to service your own engines is probably the only way to go, unless you can get a mechanic to come out to your boat.

It's really not that difficult nor complicated to do if you know what to do. Having someone help me was a great assistance for me to learn the procedure. Up to that point, I had no idea where the impeller was actually located, but having done it once, I could easily do it again.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Chotu,

You have a very unusual situation with your engines, where, I can see, that servicing them, can present a challenging problem.

But it's fair to say, that likely 99.99% of outboards are to be found on a transom of a fishing or other type of small boat, where gaining access to all the parts of engine is a relatively simple manner.

In your case, learning how to service your own engines is probably the only way to go, unless you can get a mechanic to come out to your boat.

It's really not that difficult nor complicated to do if you know what to do. Having someone help me was a great assistance for me to learn the procedure. Up to that point, I had no idea where the impeller was actually located, but having done it once, I could easily do it again.

Oh!!! With all of your knowledge on the other areas of the forum, I thought you would be also an expert in engines as well. I didn’t realize that they were something that you hadn’t really gotten into. I’ve been doing impellers for 30 years. Nothing new there for me. What is new is that doing my own work voids the warranty. I voided it years ago.

Because mine lift up really far, I can have access to every piece of the engine also. Servicing them is no big deal at all. They lift up above shoulder height, and adjust at any height at all. You can sit down and change the prop. Easy stuff. I designed it that way. However, taking them off and bringing them to a shop is a nightmare. One I would never do.

But you’re right. 99% of the outboards are on the back of a trailer that can be brought to the certified repair shop.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Chotu

What is new is that doing my own work voids the warranty. I voided it years ago.

The "right to repair" executive order that Biden signed a few months ago makes that warranty clause no longer legal, so congratulations, you may be back under warranty! Those clauses always made me angry as well, I mean how hard is it to change out an impeller and do they seriously expect me to spend a significant percentage of the engine's value (for my small dinghy engine) shipping it from whatever remote place I'm at when it reaches its service interval to the nearest "authorized" service location? I'm glad those conditions are finally getting shot down.

[MicHughV]

New car "warranties" etc. are a bit of a misnomer to me. The car, engine, etc, is brand new. Why is a warranty necessary in the first place ?
Why is a warranty " void" if you do it yourself ?? Do they think I'm simply too stoopid to do it. Must I use their propriety oil ??

I think " warranties" are a ploy to get you back to the dealership where they can try to sell you something you don't need or want.

Have you ever thought about " extended warranties" sold by used car dealers. Reading the fine print, they are basically not worth the paper it's written on, but it gets you back in the dealership for the " free" oil change, etc. and for some salesman to pitch a new care sales on you, while you wait 4 hours for your " free" oil change.

My opinion is that most modern cars, outboards, etc are pretty darn robust and reliable.
It's nothing for your modern day car to get 2-300,000 miles on the clock. Sure, some oil changes here and there are required, but little more.

"Paint protection" is another scam favored by the dealers.

When my wife takes her car into Jiffy Lube for an oil change, they will come up with several $100 of other stuff they found.
Just the other day, I had to put new brakes on her vehicle. First place I went too wanted $850....besides the new brake pads, they found a cracked caliper (they say) plus your usual worn rotor, dirty brake fluid, etc,

I took it to another place, where they found no problems whatsoever and just put new pads on.

I'm having a bit of a rant about it for ....100 hours on my outboards is a once a year thing. I wait till wintertime, when I'm unlikely to use it much and get it done then.

I've taken 100's of engines apart, but never an outboard, but have a much better understanding of them now.