Easy boat to dock

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Shrew

When I was referring to being 'steered', I meant by using the wheel and rudder. direction can be controlled and altered with prop walk, but IMHO I wouldn't consider that steering. Though we might be having a simple clash of symantec's here.

So what would you call controlling the direction of the boat traveling thru the water by means other than the rudder? I'm not even sure it could qualify as semantics.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Few people start out getting lessons. They either figure it out on their own (sort of a guy-thing), or something traumatic happens and they decide to get a lesson. For me, many, many years ago, it was getting fed-up with wanting to head out on a Saturday but being scared about the returning winds. So I finally went to a large brokerage and found a captain who taught. He wasn't the greatest, but good enough to get me started. I became deeply involved in the recreational marine industry a few years later and ended up with a 100T license and started teaching others. My background - especially the fear of docking - really helped me teach folks. The fear was still pretty fresh in my mind so I could relate.

Great story. I recall once watching a guy move a big powerboat into and out of his slip, with what looked like an advisor or teacher standing beside him. In and out. Slow, faster, different angles...

Adult approaches to learning things like that are better than dumb machismo. Less hard on the boat, too, I imagine.

[ohdrinkboy]

Some good advice on here. A bit of my advice: Practice first at a T dock instead of a slip. Only go as fast as you want to hit something. No one puts their hands or fee out to catch or push off the boat. Use neutral most of the time. make small adjustments to placements of the boat.

practice, practice, practice really helps. practice where people aren't makes it less stressful.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

So what would you call controlling the direction of the boat traveling thru the water by means other than the rudder? I'm not even sure it could qualify as semantics.

Would it make more sense if I used the phrase 'turning the wheel/rudder' as opposed to 'steering'? That is simply what I was trying say and then to later clarify. And yes what we're debating is literally the definition of semantic's.

My apologies for the confusion.

[yorkville]

Many thanks to everyone replying to my question. Really appreciate the help. Does anyone have recommendation on where I can get some practical lessons on boat handling? I had taken a RIB driving class. But for driving something larger, I have only found instructors requiring me to have the boat already. I prefer Pacific Northwest, but can go anywhere for the lessons.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by yorkville

Many thanks to everyone replying to my question. Really appreciate the help. Does anyone have recommendation on where I can get some practical lessons on boat handling? I had taken a RIB driving class. But for driving something larger, I have only found instructors requiring me to have the boat already. I prefer Pacific Northwest, but can go anywhere for the lessons.

Try one of the trawler charter companies in the PNW. They may be able to setup a two day training curriculum for you as they often require some training for people without requisite experience. I have never chartered in the PNW but understand it's beautiful. Bit of a mecca for powerboat charters so you might have options

The issue is insurance. Years ago, i used my Willard 36 as a training platform for weekend close quarter maneuvering workshops. Close to half the money I charged went for insurance which is why I stopped doing it.

Peter

[ol1970]

I’ve been a power boater for 20+ years and my current 24 foot boat being a v drive it’s about as challenging as it gets because the rudder and prop are nearly in the middle of the boat. It’s made me way better at docking large sailboats because you truly have to understand the prop walk and how the boat reacts to the wind and slight throttle and steering inputs. Now you can get a duel engine 30’ boat that you can essentially dock with a joystick, takes all the fun out of it though! Like anything it just takes practice, beyond 30’ is when it’s helpful to have added features like a bow thruster or dual engines that pivot.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by ol1970

I’ve been a power boater for 20+ years and my current 24 foot boat being a v drive it’s about as challenging as it gets because the rudder and prop are nearly in the middle of the boat. It’s made me way better at docking large sailboats because you truly have to understand the prop walk and how the boat reacts to the wind and slight throttle and steering inputs. Now you can get a duel engine 30’ boat that you can essentially dock with a joystick, takes all the fun out of it though! Like anything it just takes practice, beyond 30’ is when it’s helpful to have added features like a bow thruster or dual engines that pivot.

Why does a V drive have the prop in the middle of the boat?

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Why does a V drive have the prop in the middle of the boat?

A V-Drive only indicates that it is an inboard motor, however the motor is mouting in reverse. The shaft extends forward into a differential gearbox, which then reverses the shaft direction aft. The shaft into the gear box and the shaft going aft make a V shape (on it's side).

It allows you to mount an inboard further aft and allow for cabin or tankage space. The engine is located all the way aft like a stern drive, but has a shaft, shaft strut and rudder rather than an I/O.

There is only one because the boat is a single. By 'middle of the boat' he means in-line with the keel, not center (Fwd and Aft).

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Shrew

A V-Drive only indicates that it is an inboard motor, however the motor is mouting in reverse. The shaft extends forward into a differential gearbox, which then reverses the shaft direction aft. The shaft into the gear box and the shaft going aft make a V shape (on it's side).

It allows you to mount an inboard further aft and allow for cabin or tankage space. The engine is located all the way aft like a stern drive, but has a shaft, shaft strut and rudder rather than an I/O.

There is only one because the boat is a single. By 'middle of the boat' he means in-line with the keel, not center (Fwd and Aft).

I'm familiar with v drives thus the question. Even your diagram contradicts the wheel and rudder being forward. Sorry if I read your OP wrong but I/B wasn't mentioned. Turning a prop and lower unit is nothing like an inboard v drive or not.

[Cheechako]

At 30 feet get a boat with two engines... that will help. Personally I find shaft drive easier, but many do well with I/O drives.
The less windage the easier near a dock if there's a side wind.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

At 30 feet get a boat with two engines... that will help. Personally I find shaft drive easier, but many do well with I/O drives.
The less windage the easier near a dock if there's a side wind.

With twin I/O or twin outboards, it's critical to leave the helm centered...especially when learning.

When you crank them hard over, the thrust vectors are almost perfectly in line so any attempt to use one in forward and one in reverse...they just fight each other.

With inboards turning the helm, the engine in forward will tend to have more impact due to prop wash over the rudder but you will still get a turning effect by opposing the engines. It's just harder for a newbie to understand what's going on when you add wash over the rudder.

[MicHughV]

on a power boat, your rudder at low speed, is practically worthless, being about the size of a sheet of paper.

pre-planing is key.....long before you come to you dock, have a plan in mind to allow for wind, current, other boaters and the fact that you may need to tie it up yourself, ie, no help from any dock hands.

that's it....pre-planing...know how far you'll drift, when you put the engine in neutral..know how quick your boat will drift in the wind....have all your docking lines ready...have your fenders in the water, use as many a you think you will need..

and if your first effort does not succeed, reverse, get some room, and try again...

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

on a power boat, your rudder at low speed, is practically worthless, being about the size of a sheet of paper.

pre-planing is key.....long before you come to you dock, have a plan in mind to allow for wind, current, other boaters and the fact that you may need to tie it up yourself, ie, no help from any dock hands.

that's it....pre-planing...know how far you'll drift, when you put the engine in neutral..know how quick your boat will drift in the wind....have all your docking lines ready...have your fenders in the water, use as many a you think you will need..

and if your first effort does not succeed, reverse, get some room, and try again...

At low speed a rudder with a lot of leading edge helps. It ain't perfect but makes better us of prop wash.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Cadence

At low speed a rudder with a lot of leading edge helps. It ain't perfect but makes better us of prop wash.

If you are coasting along in neutral, yeah, the small rudders are less effective.

If you are using them to direct prop wash, it's not really true. Most power boats, the rudders are directly behind the prop and roughly of similar size to the prop. Plus they simply put out a lot more wash with big engines driving large fixed props, so you have more to work with.

With a sailboat with a barn door size rudder and a tiny 2 blade prop, the wash really only hits against a small percentage of the rudder and there is a lot less wash, so overall, it's not a huge impact. If it's the old keel hung rudder with the half circle for the prop to fit in, you may get almost no wash redirection by the rudder.