Completely Overwhelmed

[deckofficer]

Capt Phil,

What would that crew compliment run? If Unlimited Tonnage it would be around $2500 per day, berth, meals and transportation to and from ports to their homes.

[bobconnie]

Ahh , Bob why would she use a delivery crew? she could hire a semi-full time capt and crew as she will need one for a good long time anyway ! Just wondering?

[deckofficer]

That price isn't for a delivery crew, just (3) deckofficers. Most of us work one month on, one month off, so need our transportation covered also.

[carstenb]

I can't believe this is still an active thread - now mentioning 90 footers?

Hello - reality check here. 90 feet? Has anybody bother to explain to GG that you don't just get a license to skipper a 90 footer on a weekend? Not to mention the fact that it does take quite a bit of practice to drive something that size in through a crowded harbour and tie up.

Hell - I'm licensed for anything up to 80 feet and 1200 KW and I wouldn't do it without a lot of practice in an empty harbour.

GG needs to get herself back on planet earth. Of course, if she can afford a full time skipper plus engineer nad deck swabbie, then she should go for the big stuff and enjoy the jacuzzi on the back deck.

of course her kids will never meet any other cruising kids since none of their boats will be tied up at that very expensive dock.

[Airshac]

GG. Good luck with this family adventure! I think my wife and I would do it with our five if the pesky ex wasn't around. Of course I could invite him to go for a cruise with me...

What's your blog address again?

[psneeld]

Can anyone point to a reference where it's "required" to have a licensed captain on board? I've never seen this requirement after teaching boating safety and captain licensing for over 10 years. I recall something about a 200 ton limit but that's a pretty big yacht.

Insurance may require it...probably will but the insurance company will direct the requirements based on a lot of things...not just size, tonnage, etc...

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

They are slowly coming around, as the Greenline 33 is selling quite well. This little cruiser can travel 25 nm per day just on solar and batteries. Once on the hook, with 1.3 Kwh of panels, the owners never need to run the diesel to charge up.

Yes, and they've been exhibiting at the Annapolis show these last few years. There's an Italian maker who has at least one "green" model out there, too...

Nothing really useful within range of my mere mortal wallet yet...

But following generations can certainly benefit.

I think given necessary funding, I might enjoy spec'ing out a "green" Nordhavn from the ground up. I think diesel-electric as a working hypothesis, with solar panels and wind generators... maybe back-up diesel get-home... etc.

-Chris

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by psneeld

Can anyone point to a reference where it's "required" to have a licensed captain on board? I've never seen this requirement after teaching boating safety and captain licensing for over 10 years. I recall something about a 200 ton limit but that's a pretty big yacht.

Insurance may require it...probably will but the insurance company will direct the requirements based on a lot of things...not just size, tonnage, etc...

I don't know about other countries. If the boat i registered in Denmark and sail s south of the English Channel, and is between 15 and 24 meters and less than 1000 HP (I have a motor certificate so for me it is 1800 HP), you must have a Yachtmaster 1st class. Beyond those limits, you must have a commercial Captains license.

But the US is probably different

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl

Aw Chris, that's the dreamboat I had on the blog. I love that boat.
You're right figuring out the balance between comfort, learning, crew and maintenance is not easy.

I think the ship pictured here 2014 Inace Yachts Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com is the actual one that was docked just behind us last weekend. (Note that the photos are marked "sister ship" to the one listed as for sale.) Don't know why I can't find this one's AIS location just now....

Anyway, note the 7 digit price tag -- and not a small one, at that -- for the available boat (ship). Woof!

Prices are usually logarithmic relative to length, too.

FWIW, there's a smaller -- only 85' -- Inace in FL, aluminum hull with single DD... but it's not in the traditional styling. Staterooms plus crew quarters, though, and only $750K. Not a recommendation, just an observation

I see that 62' Nordhavn is still listed at $750K, with remarks about systems to increase ease of handling...

-Chris

[cdreid]

i just read this thread and i think i understand the problem because i had it once. She is an adventurer, wants to live the cruising lifestyle and has substantial money to do it with but thats all she knows. She has jumped on trawlers because they are big comfy water houses more than boats. i can understand that. please take this as well intentioned because i had that mindset when i thought i needed a 50 to live solo...


Some things to consider:
1. as length increases costs go up geometricalliy...
2. a 70-100 foot yacht could break a multimilllionaire fast.
3. This isnt a house. by that i mean you dont need nearly the room. The furniture is built in.. the storeage is uberefficient.. you dont need to store 11 tons of junk you never use.
4. After a certain size you need to have crew.. that takes more room.. requiring a bigger boat.
5. Handling any vehicle that size takes year of practice and you will screw up. Trust me.
6. Trawlers arent "efficient". Theyre relatively short and fat. look at a US aircraft carrier.. theres a reason theyre loooong and thin at the waterline.

You need to take the advice here.. open your mind up.
a: Sailboats. At your $$$ level they can be had so automatic as to be nearly as easy to handle as motor yachts. You can control everything on them from the comfort of a dry helm. And zero fuel cost. over 50,60or 70 feet they can have massive amounts of solar/wind/ water power
b: trimarans.. power or sail. i know people have been pushy but i dont think you get just how huge the advantages spacewise of that hull form are.
c: the more modern "coastal cruiser" monohulls. These are 'new school" design with Much more beam and massive room.
d: nontrawler designs.

You need to consider running costs. With 5 kids and you in a 45' sail boat it may cost you (with a luxurious 'landlubber' lifestyle) 3-5k a month to live and cruise. With an 80 foot trawler im guessing 4-5 times that. And youll have strange men (crew) livling with you.

Youre in the mindset of someone who wants to sail your house around.. but remember your life is going to be an adventure now.. your day wont revolve around getting home and shuttling hte world out but rather going out to see it

One last thing. i know some posts annoyed you because of >how they were stated.. but consider them. For one if you live at the "millionaires dock" you and your kids wont be hanging w the marina folk. Those people live in a separate world...

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by cdreid

i just read this thread and i think i understand the problem because i had it once. She is an adventurer, wants to live the cruising lifestyle and has substantial money to do it with but thats all she knows. She has jumped on trawlers because they are big comfy water houses more than boats. i can understand that. please take this as well intentioned because i had that mindset when i thought i needed a 50 to live solo...


Some things to consider:
1. as length increases costs go up geometricalliy...
2. a 70-100 foot yacht could break a multimilllionaire fast.
3. This isnt a house. by that i mean you dont need nearly the room. The furniture is built in.. the storeage is uberefficient.. you dont need to store 11 tons of junk you never use.
4. After a certain size you need to have crew.. that takes more room.. requiring a bigger boat.
5. Handling any vehicle that size takes year of practice and you will screw up. Trust me.
6. Trawlers arent "efficient". Theyre relatively short and fat. look at a US aircraft carrier.. theres a reason theyre loooong and thin at the waterline.

You need to take the advice here.. open your mind up.
a: Sailboats. At your $$$ level they can be had so automatic as to be nearly as easy to handle as motor yachts. You can control everything on them from the comfort of a dry helm. And zero fuel cost. over 50,60or 70 feet they can have massive amounts of solar/wind/ water power
b: trimarans.. power or sail. i know people have been pushy but i dont think you get just how huge the advantages spacewise of that hull form are.
c: the more modern "coastal cruiser" monohulls. These are 'new school" design with Much more beam and massive room.
d: nontrawler designs.

You need to consider running costs. With 5 kids and you in a 45' sail boat it may cost you (with a luxurious 'landlubber' lifestyle) 3-5k a month to live and cruise. With an 80 foot trawler im guessing 4-5 times that. And youll have strange men (crew) livling with you.

Youre in the mindset of someone who wants to sail your house around.. but remember your life is going to be an adventure now.. your day wont revolve around getting home and shuttling hte world out but rather going out to see it

One last thing. i know some posts annoyed you because of >how they were stated.. but consider them. For one if you live at the "millionaires dock" you and your kids wont be hanging w the marina folk. Those people live in a separate world...

+1 But she ain't agonna listen. Hasn't yet

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by bobofthenorth

Spoken with all the authority of someone who has never done it. Your kids won't even know that their fellow cruising kids exist if you're tied up on a t-dock and the real cruisers are anchored out thirty miles away. Or even 5 miles away for that matter.

You'll be a lot happier in the long run if you buy a (smaller) starter boat that you know is a starter boat and figure it out by doing. But I don't know why you'd believe me when you've clearly ignored everyone else who has given you exactly the same advice. Over and over and over.

+1,000,000

Larger boat costs go up astronomically or exponentially, not geometrically.

I've read this entire topic. I still have trouble understanding why it appears you still haven't set foot on any of these boats, unless I missed it, in that case I apologize.

IMHO, the kids who get together are either on land by dinghies or in anchorages with similar boats. It is true, in my experience, that folks on powerboats ARE older and kid-less.

And powerboats tend to have electrical systems that require power generation the minute the engines are off. Why? 'Cuz they have 120V fridges and electric stoves and ovens!!! Holy cow!!! That's why they dock at docks with electricity. They anchor out MUCH less. Recent indications are that the trawler crowd (a bunch of great folks, BTW) and more knowledgeable power cruisers are switching to propane stoves, larger battery banks, inverters and solar to avoid the very gen set mind set that powerboaters always used to, and still do have.

Where you cruise will also have a BIG effect on the people you meet. The PNW, for example, has a good mix of sail and power because the weather and winds are not necessarily conducive to sailing in an exposed cockpit, so there's a larger proportion of power cruisers. They do, however, tend to interact.

In warmer, sunnier climes, that just doesn't happen. For example, the Baja HaHa, now going into its 20th year this year, has only a handful of powerboats - over its 20 year history. That's simply a reality.

The one thing I might have missed is why don't you just bite the bullet and get a Nordhaven? They even make a motorsailer.

That said, all the best, good luck.

[rw58ph]

I agree the Seattle boat is to long, big, heavy and to far away. How are those nautical terms! The person that buys it will probable use it as a business charter which is what it was used for.

I do not understand why some of you are so negative and in a hurry. It took us about 2 years until my wife found the Eagle that met her requirements and it just felt right. There is not set time table.

It sounds like GG is sort of like we are/were yuppie newbies with a little boating experience but certainly not for a 58 ft. First buy a boat to live on, dock condo, and stay tied to the dock most of the time at first. Then venture away from the dock for week end/week vacations until acquiring the knowledge experience. Then children start leaving the nest and have experience start moving about and long cruises. 17 years and we are just starting to think about long cruises. It’s a step by step process and it may take years, even decades.

Besides if you buy a big enough boat with the whistles and bells, bow/stern thruster/auto pilot/gen sets, electronics, diesel heating, creature comforts and hire others people most things are possible. Do you really think most of the owners of larger yachts are allowed and can take their boats out? So enjoy GG adventure and it may take hundreds of more pages.

[deckofficer]

GG has more energy than me, but I don't set the bar too high. It was always a PITA to provision foodstuffs while cruising and it was just for me. She will be lugging groceries for 5 growing kids and with her mom and professional crew, 5 adults.

[Sandero]

While the GG dream seems a fantasy, it seems with enough money and time and intelligence and so forth she might be able to get there faster than others. Few people it seems decide to radically change their lives... most transition slowly for multiple reasons.

I might not do it the way she's planning to. I'd start with a bigish sail and a captain and experience cruising and learn from experience and then move to a bigger sail or perhaps power. Lots of wisdom in this thread. Big costs, big power costs more and represents more problems it seems than big sail. My sense is that big sail could work, but this is hard to know.

Since most boats are not making way the time spent in port, at anchor and so forth needs to drive this decision. Passages are simply the short periods between the long stops. My sense is that as a home GG thinks sail is too small for the family. And she may be right for 7 aboard.

My experience with big boats is very limited because I've only been aboard one megayacht - Empress and it was very impressive but hardly what I would ever want to call home. I think the largest sail I was on I think was called Lady Hawke and that was huge (100'?) and very comfy and could easily take this family. It had a walk in stand up engine room which was white as the driven snow and one of thoe fold open transoms which house all sorts of water sports... This would be too large obviously.

My sense is that the power will accommodate but be very expensive and impose other limitations. I would never want to be tied to a dock... only for topping off...but you simply don't see the big guys moored much aside from in the caribe and they are charter boats. All the big power is dock bound.

I don't know whether GG has weighed in on this aspect of bog boats or not.