Build a Boat for The Great Loop?

[beiland]

Originally Posted by Bash

Let's not forget that the boat will return to Key West and then make a living there after doing the loop.

That was NOT specified in the original posting, nor thereafter till you brought it up.

Besides that the Thai cat I posted photos of does daily charters in Thailand visiting several shallow areas.

[ohdrinkboy]

Originally Posted by capngeo

Pictures of EcoCat built here in KW by Rick Keith. The boat in the pix was commissioned by a friend who single hands it all over skinny water areas around here. I like the concept of this boat, but it lacks the ability to handle anything much over 2' seas (I've been on it in a 3' chop and it was shipping water into the house). The project in the OP was to provide the most living space in a seaworthy, economical powerboat for the Great Loop.

This boat really peaks my interest. Wonder if having a 3rd toon would keep it higher and able to handle 3-4' waves. I know a tri-toon sits much higher than a pontoon, and takes waves much better.

I assume this is homemade.

[valhalla360]

If you don't want to comments, don't ask for them. You suggested a very unusual design. It's to be expected that people will be skeptical.

The original idea you suggested to build folding hulls to save on marina fees and the extra cost and complication of folding hulls over fixed hulls will likely never justify the cost.

Other than marinas, a 45' boat is no big deal in locks and side ties so, I don't see what you are gaining in those situations. I could see it being a problem if they fail in the down position as you can't get to the bows to fend off.

Sure you can build a functional boat with folding hulls. Heck we built a ship that went to the moon...but doesn't mean it's a great way to get from NY to LA.

Seems like a solution looking for a problem.

[captain58sailin]

If you are going to that level of complexity, I would look at my area of operations and determine if the expense/trouble would make it worth the savings regarding dockage. I would be far more concerned with performance whilst at sea. Not wishing to rain on your parade, it just doesn't strike me as a practical application. I wouldn't worry as much about the how it can be done and look at the if should be done. An engineering degree does not automatically mean you have common sense. Sorry nothing constructive to add.

[nimblemotors]

Originally Posted by beiland

... Have a look here.
DH 550 Plywood Cruising catamaran
DH550 radius chine plywood catamaran building photos

I have some more photos of that Thai boat if you're interested

Haven't seen that one before, looks good, and available as a kit too.
Thanks Brian.

Makes me wonder if one might sell hulls already built?
While everyone says building the hulls is the "easy" part, it requires a lot of space. If you could buy the hulls complete, seems like it would speedup a build quite a bit, enough head start that you can be motivated to finish it,
such that it looks like a complete boat pretty quickly,
any maybe can get it in the water sooner and finish the interior on the water?

[capngeo]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The original idea you suggested to build folding hulls to save on marina fees and the extra cost and complication of folding hulls over fixed hulls will likely never justify the cost.

Other than marinas, a 45' boat is no big deal in locks and side ties so, I don't see what you are gaining in those situations. I could see it being a problem if they fail in the down position as you can't get to the bows to fend off.

Saving fees was never the intent! I went back and re-read the OP and realized the confusion "dockage"was intended to be "docking". Obviously autocorrect bit me on that one. YES, the primary intent was to be able to fold the wave piercing bows to allow crew access for tying and fending, secondly it was to allow berthing in a smaller space on a sea wall or to be able to get into a lock, that would be otherwise full to a 45' boat... Yet a 30' would fit.

[capngeo]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you don't want to comments, don't ask for them. You suggested a very unusual design. It's to be expected that people will be skeptical.

Seems like a solution looking for a problem.

Comments are great.... Constructive comments that is.. Just to say "it can't be done" or "you are a fool" without amplifying reasons is not constructive in the least. Now if someone said that it would be impractical because of "X" reason due to "Y" stress in "Z" location, THEN that criticism is welcome!

A lot innovators were considered fools, and were told their idea was impossible, yet still managed to pull it off; were it not for those innovators, we would have a lot less today. Those who dismiss ideas without study are the real fool, and their blanket dismissal is nothing more than jealousy (or arrogance) that someone who they perceive as having lesser intelligence or education thought of the idea before them.

[bobconnie]

I still believe that folding hulls could be done! With the proper design, most anything is possible. Im no engineer, don't think Ive ever said I was! BUT Im a hell of a fabricater, welder. Thats bilt 5 boats in steel and alloy in my life, 4 of them from plans and One from my own ideas. All of them floated and seemed to sail pretty well !! I don't know where engineers get there Ideas from sometimes ! ask any Machinist about engineers prints and how many times changes had to be made because of engineers not knowing how things must be done when it comes time to put there ideas into the REAL thing !! 50 yrs of boat repair and bilding have taught me one thing " nothings impossible if ya don't mind work, and ya have enough money !! LOL just sayin don't badmouth an idea just because you did not think of it !!

[beiland]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

Haven't seen that one before, looks good, and available as a kit too.
Thanks Brian.

Makes me wonder if one might sell hulls already built?
While everyone says building the hulls is the "easy" part, it requires a lot of space. If you could buy the hulls complete, seems like it would speedup a build quite a bit, enough head start that you can be motivated to finish it,
such that it looks like a complete boat pretty quickly,
any maybe can get it in the water sooner and finish the interior on the water?

Here was another 'kit catamaran' project I was getting involved with, built of prefabricated 'polycore panels'. Too bad they went out of business.They had put a LOT of good effort into developing the design and construction process. Here is one PDF I have on it. I believe I have another somewhere describing the assembly (you will have to access that PDF over there as the file size is just a bit too large to post here)

Aftmast rigs??? - Page 32 - Boat Design Forums

[beiland]

I just found this reference is still in existance even though most of the others were removed.

http://www.multihull.com.au/site/www...fic_40_kit.pdf

[nimblemotors]

Originally Posted by beiland

I just found this reference is still in existance even though most of the others were removed.

http://www.multihull.com.au/site/www...fic_40_kit.pdf

Look at how big a space needed to build it. If making hulls is really so easy, the designers/builders can pop them out quick and "cheap" and let the hard fitout/finish/detail work be done by the owners...so me thinks it really isn't so easy! I can't recall seeing anyone offer them prebuilt. I suppose a buyer will either buy finished or contract to a builder and a DIY will build from plans to save a few dollars.

[capngeo]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

Look at how big a space needed to build it. If making hulls is really so easy, the designers/builders can pop them out quick and "cheap" and let the hard fitout/finish/detail work be done by the owners...so me thinks it really isn't so easy! I can't recall seeing anyone offer them prebuilt. I suppose a buyer will either buy finished or contract to a builder and a DIY will build from plans to save a few dollars.

Could the issue be transport?

[valhalla360]

Buying a hull: I looked into building several years back. My understanding is no one stays in the buisness because too many bad build outs give the manufacturer a bad reputation and even the good builds sell for very little due to the bad reputation.

Building a folding hull: The idea that folding to get into a lock or onto a wall sounds like the idea of someone who doesn't have much practical expereince. We've done 1 1/2 loops along with other cruising. Not once would we have gotten into a lock or onto a wall if we could shrink the boat by 10-15', so I'm still back to trying to figure out some benefit to the idea as a looper boat.

[capngeo]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Buying a hull: I looked into building several years back. My understanding is no one stays in the buisness because too many bad build outs give the manufacturer a bad reputation and even the good builds sell for very little due to the bad reputation.

Building a folding hull: The idea that folding to get into a lock or onto a wall sounds like the idea of someone who doesn't have much practical expereince. We've done 1 1/2 loops along with other cruising. Not once would we have gotten into a lock or onto a wall if we could shrink the boat by 10-15', so I'm still back to trying to figure out some benefit to the idea as a looper boat.

Nope, never done the loop. Have been back and forth from FL to ME many times, been across Okeechobee enough to have a lot of lock experience. Many times on any of those trips I have seen alongside docking for 30', but not 45'

Access to the bow for boarding, tying, fending etc. is the main reason. Additionally, many slips' finger piers (if any fingers are present) are not that long; folded bows would allow the deck to come within stepping distance of the main pier.

Regardless, the thread is not about the reason why, but the how! The reason why has been established, the challenge laid out, and the design is going to move forward in spite of it not being someone else's cup of tea.

[nimblemotors]

Originally Posted by capngeo

Regardless, the thread is not about the reason why, but the how! The reason why has been established, the challenge laid out, and the design is going to move forward in spite of it not being someone else's cup of tea.

You would want to build a scale model first.

I have lots of unusual ideas and do a lot of research on them, and find that asking others for help is really not productive. If they are common problems/designs assistance is not difficult to give, but then answers are already easily found. If too unusual, you get the naysayers more than anything. So you really just have to do it yourself first.
A model is a good start, with the effort expended and it looks like it will work, everyone now will want to help and be part of your success.