Big but not fancy?

[PocketNaomi]

My family is researching boats with the intention of going liveaboard when we emigrate to the Netherlands in a couple of years. The problem is there are a lot of us! We need a place that five people can live on full time, with three or four more visiting sometimes, and that'll hold a gathering of thirty or so for a party (not staying the night, and can be on deck, so that part probably won't be as much of a problem). Add to that the fact that my husband is a BIG guy -- he can't fit into those tiny passageways and showers on the 40-foot boats I see. But the big ones tend to be fancy and expensive.

I don't need a superyacht! I need a home, that sits in the water instead of on land.

Some of the options we're looking at:

-Literal floating house, rather than a true boat. Solves our space issues, but also tend to be expensive, and besides, we actually do want to be able to go places in it sometimes. (I'm not worried about getting something too big for us to crew it ourselves; we won't be traveling in it so often that we couldn't hire temporary crew if we needed to. But I don't want to rule out traveling in our living space altogether. It sounds like a blast.)

-Houseboat, of the long, rectangular sort that's made for freshwater. Solves our space issues, probably affordable if we get it used, but I hate them. They feel like RVs to me; everything plastic and with no interior sound insulation. Besides, we might very well *not* be on freshwater, and they don't do so well in salt.

-Big trawler type beast. I'm not sure how feasible this is. I've certainly seen them used in our price range (under about $750K for sure, under about $600K by preference), but I don't know enough about boats yet to have any sense of whether the ones I see in that price range are notoriously falling apart or something.

-Cheap commercial boat and then gut the interior and have it redone ourselves. This is a really appealing option if we can swing it. A ferry or something that's big and stable and has a lot of inside space we can make into whatever we want would be ideal. Problem: I have no idea if this is actually affordable. I've seen boats in the right size range for under $250K, but again, I'm not sure if everybody but me knows that anything in that price range must be ready to sink and there's no point in even looking at them, or what. And while it seems to me that one *should* be able to do a full interior renovation for under $400K -- you certainly could for a similar-sized house -- I'm not sure if the ways that renovation is different for a boat would drive up the price to where we couldn't cover it. I'm also not sure about the differences in getting a loan to buy and getting a loan to renovate. On land, sometimes the latter is harder; I have to assume it would be on the water as well (although if necessary, we could probably finance the purchase but pay for the refit out of pocket, if it's not more than my current estimate).

Does anybody have any thoughts on whether any of these options are possible? Or another option that I haven't thought of? The big yachts with glorious interior woodwork and four different outside dining locations are lovely eye candy, but c'mon, we don't need that. We do need four cabins, a bathtub (we can get that put in so long as there's space to put it; I don't need it to come with one), and comfortable width in the walkways and showers for a 300-lb. man.

I'm planning to hire a buyer's broker when it's time to go get our boat instead of doing advance research, and I'm sure they'll help. But I'd like to have a sense for what to tell them we're looking for.

Thanks, all. Please forgive my naivete in advance; I'm very new in this world of boats.

[s/v Moondancer]

https://www.dutchbargesforsale.co.uk/

[PocketNaomi]

Do the Dutch barges get big enough? Because they're so narrow, I've only ever seen them with a maximum of two bedrooms, one at each end.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by PocketNaomi

We need a place that five people can live on full time, with three or four more visiting sometimes, and that'll hold a gathering of thirty or so for a party (not staying the night, and can be on deck, so that part probably won't be as much of a problem).

Since this doesn't sound like a cruising boat......encourage your friends to get hotels. Don't buy a boat for your friends and family so that they MIGHT join you occasionally.

There is a lifestyle change.........................then there is buying something so that everyone else can experience your lifestyle change.

[PocketNaomi]

My friends can get hotels. My children need to be able to come home. I'm willing to wedge them into Pullman bunks but I'm not willing to tell them there is no place for them where I live.

[TrentePieds]

Quote "Does anybody have any thoughts on whether any of these options are possible?"

Yes, indeed - but I fear you won't like them :-)!

Let's start here: "when we emigrate to the Netherlands"

Where are you coming from, what part of the Netherlands are you going to? Are the children grown? Party of 30??? Why not just rent a banquet room six or seven times a year? 'Sgotta be cheaper - even in Holland!

Hm... Something akin to an ex-Royal Canadian Navy harbour ferry, a so-called "Series 300 YAG" (YAG = Yard, Auxiliary, General) might do the job after a rebuild. I just sketched out a "family layout" for one of them for another lady with no boating knowledge. However, a lady that DOES have boating knowledge, or at least has it on tap via the British Admiralty - one Elizabeth Windsor, AKA Queen Elizabeth II - sez she can't afford the upkeep on those things anymore. If SHE can't, I CERTAINLY can't. If I could, I definitely would :-)

Lillibet in Right of Canada sold them off about a dozen years ago. You could probably BUY one in the private market for maybe Can$5K. But better listen to Lillibet. It's the keeping of it that kills you!

TrentePieds

[PocketNaomi]

Coming from the United States, not sure where in the Netherlands we will end up; only that local laws make it possible for us to emigrate there, while most of Europe is impossible for us. I've got a dear friend in Amsterdam, but it's expensive; we'll probably end up someplace less so. But I'm still working on that part. My husband's work and mine are both transferrable -- we can do the international vagabond thing, so we will be able to choose a location based on other practicalities.

The children are almost-grown as of now, which is why we're planning to move in a couple of years, when they're on their own. Five of us -- my husband, myself, my brother, one of my offspring who won't be ready to leave the nest yet, and their partner who has become a de facto additional child to us -- will likely be living in the boat. So call it a minimum of three cabins, one of which can be a single or bunks (the latter of which would give me a place to stash a visiting kid, too).

The other two kids are in very different circumstances. One, in their early twenties, probably won't be there very often; they live in Colorado and have their own household to keep them busy. The other will be in University, and they're aiming for a school in the Netherlands, so they'll be within range to come home for weekends... if they want to. We'll have to see how often they want to, but I at least need it to be possible for them.

You're absolutely right about renting space for our house conventions; even keeping it for a full weekend once a year would be less expensive than basing the boat size around it. I'm not thinking the way I need to yet. But I do need to be able to house the five of us, and have a place to put either of my other two on the occasions when they want to come home, even if the place is a Pullman bunk in his live-in sibling's room or a futon couch in the saloon that folds out.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by PocketNaomi

-Big trawler type beast. I'm not sure how feasible this is. I've certainly seen them used in our price range (under about $750K for sure, under about $600K by preference), but I don't know enough about boats yet to have any sense of whether the ones I see in that price range are notoriously falling apart or something.

-Cheap commercial boat and then gut the interior and have it redone ourselves. This is a really appealing option if we can swing it. A ferry or something that's big and stable and has a lot of inside space we can make into whatever we want would be ideal. Problem: I have no idea if this is actually affordable. I've seen boats in the right size range for under $250K, but again, I'm not sure if everybody but me knows that anything in that price range must be ready to sink and there's no point in even looking at them, or what. And while it seems to me that one *should* be able to do a full interior renovation for under $400K -- you certainly could for a similar-sized house -- I'm not sure if the ways that renovation is different for a boat would drive up the price to where we couldn't cover it. I'm also not sure about the differences in getting a loan to buy and getting a loan to renovate. On land, sometimes the latter is harder; I have to assume it would be on the water as well (although if necessary, we could probably finance the purchase but pay for the refit out of pocket, if it's not more than my current estimate).

Does anybody have any thoughts on whether any of these options are possible? Or another option that I haven't thought of?

You might get some useful info from trawlerforum.com (sister site), too.

In addition to financing, you'll want to research insurance.

A 3-stateroom boat (staterooms appropriate to requirements) and a pull-out sofa-bed (often on the saloon) could probably be easily found... at least once the Covid market cools off. It'd take you more thought to decide whether that could be comfortable for you and family as liveaboards.

4 (or more) staterooms, getting bigger, more difficult... I dunno that market, but you could look on yachtworld.com to get some ideas.

Why live on a boat, in your case? It's not usually much (or any) less expensive than living on land, at least in some (many? most?) places. "Romance?" Crowded conditions, living in each other's hip pockets... although perhaps that's surmountable. Other reasons?

-Chris

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by PocketNaomi

Do the Dutch barges get big enough? Because they're so narrow, I've only ever seen them with a maximum of two bedrooms, one at each end.

I believe you are thinking of UK narrow boats with a 7ft beam.

Continental barges can be quite large depending on the routes they are intended for. I've seen some where they literally have a car on the back deck that is lifted on and off with an onboard crane. If you stick to the larger rivers and canals, size isn't an issue. If you want to fit on smaller french canals (still much bigger than the UK narrow canals), it's a bit more limited.

If you budget is in the $500-750k range for purchase, that should be doable. Do you have a budget for maintenance and slip fees and other related costs? Lots of people have enough to buy but don't realize how much it takes to care for a large boat.

One of the advantages of barges is they are built for space. Going with a boat designed for open waters, you will likely need a larger boat to get an equivalent set of accommodations.

Also, check the visa rules to be sure. Usually, they want a physical address. They may or may not accept a slip as an address. Also, do all of the parties qualify for the resident visa? Sounds like some are not legally part of the immediate family, so they may need to qualify to get their visa separately (Brother and offspring's partner...depending on age possibly the offspring).

[brendanwalls]

The perfect boat is here for you in Baltimore's Henderson's Wharf. Go to our Craigslist and look up San Bar, 56ft Custom Italian Cruiser.

I looked at it last week and it checks all your boxes.

Brendan

[goboatingnow]

Just get a house like everyone else

Secondly long term mooring for a large boat near any major urban settings will be very expensive on Holland. ( and difficult to get ). You need to enquire about liveaboard status as well. The Dutch authorities are straight but strict.

[goboatingnow]

Dutch luxe motors etc barges are huge upto 100 feet by 14-16 feet

[GoneDiving]

Originally Posted by PocketNaomi

Cheap commercial boat and then gut the interior and have it redone ourselves. This is a really appealing option if we can swing it. A ferry or something that's big and stable and has a lot of inside space we can make into whatever we want would be ideal. Problem: I have no idea if this is actually affordable. I've seen boats in the right size range for under $250K

This is certainly doable. I'm in the process of a full refit on a steel ex commercial trawler now. You don't say what type and amount of sailing you intend to do but a ex ferry may be suitable for coastal use or a commercial fishing boat for blue water use.

Benefits:
You get the boat YOU want, not what some one else designed.
50 to 100' commercial vessels are readily available
You often get a lot of boat for your $$$'s
Fit out can be to your tastes and budget.
The more involved you are, the more familiar you will be with systems on board when it comes time to do repairs.
Doing some of the work yourself can reduce costs. A LOT!

Cautions:
Commercial boats are often unloved and sold when they are beyond economic repair. Expect to have to repair structural issues.
Systems on board will likely be old but industrial grade and bullet proof. Some may be total over kill for domestic use. Preference will be given to functionality and reliability over noise and appearance.
The more personalised the vessel, the less likely you are to recoup refit costs in resale value.
Can you insure an ex commercial vessel?
Big commercial vessels are designed to go out in open waters for days/months on end. They can be very combersome and absolute pigs to handle in close quarters in a marina.
Do you have already converted vessels available near you? Then you may have less work to do just adding personal touches than a full refit.
Most spend 2 to 3 times their initial time and money estimates on a refit. Don't underestimate the amount of work involved in a full refit.

Good luck

[Cadence]

It sounds ilke you may be getting the cart before the horse. Wait till you get there.
The only thing I know is what I've read. It sounds like one of there barges to me.

[TrentePieds]

Naomi:

Are you still with us? You've had some very good advice in the posts above, but there is still lots to say. If you are still interested, sing out :-)!

TP