Big but not fancy?

[hartcjhart]

take a look here plenty to suit your needs


https://www.apolloduck.com/dealer.ph...d=843&oid=1059

[PocketNaomi]

Originally Posted by SnB

You didn't mention whether you wanted a sailing vessel or a motor one. If you bought it or had it built in the US, would you then sail/motor it to the Netherlands?

Motor. We've all three done some small-boat sailing, but definitely aren't good enough sailors to try handling something big enough to live on.

As I've just been discussing above, I may well not be allowed for immigration reasons to use as a Dutch residence a boat of any type except the Dutch canal barges that already exist in place there and come with fixed addresses at the moorage points that are sold along with the boat. (You're not allowed to remove the boat that's sold with the space and replace it, at least not without the consent of the local government, and they're so picky as to be nearly impossible about the style specifics of what you move in.) So there's a lot I will need to rethink about all this.

One thing I hadn't mentioned because it only complicated the situation was that we still to spend a largeish minority of our time back in the United States, even though we're moving our permanent legal residence and eventually our citizenship. We'll need to look at exactly how much time we are required to be in the Netherlands in order to maintain our immigration status, but whatever that is, we'll do it. However, we may still be doing long visits back here, to whatever extent we are legally allowed to be off Dutch soil without messing up our immigration status.

What we may end up having to do in order to get our boat fix and still follow our residence requirements is to get a boat here in the US and keep it here, or at least cruise it generally around this hemisphere, for such time as we are allowed to be outside of the Netherlands. In that case, we would be moving the boat to Europe, but not right away... only once we have Dutch citizenship and can afford to be more flexible about our living arrangements. That's obviously several years down the road. So if we buy a boat in the US at all, we won't be moving it to Europe right away -- we would keep it here, use it here when we could, and moving it -- or whatever boat we had at the time, if we had replaced the first one by then -- to Europe five-plus years later, after we were able to become Dutch citizens.

To get to the actual question, since all of that was the complicated context: assuming we were to buy a boat in the US, then whenever we actually do move it to Europe, whether we'd be taking it there under its own power or getting it transported by professionals would depend entirely on what kind of boat we end up with and whether it's able to handle blue water. I may be a novice but I know at least enough to be aware that a transatlantic crossing is not easy, and that you need both the right boat and the right crew for it. If our boat isn't the right kind, we won't try. If it is and we do try, we will hire experienced crew for the trip; we're not fool enough to try and do it ourselves. (I guess we might if I spend some of those several years learning how and getting lots of practice under difficult conditions, but I'm not counting on that.)

[Shaneesprit]

The big lake in the middle of Holland is full of huge non fancy sailing ships, it’s like heaven
Don’t think you will struggle.
There are also some really fancy ones.
I would look for boats already on the lake.

[TrentePieds]

Hello again, Naomi. Could you just reach over an give your kitty-kat a smooch from me? Tell her that I'll retire the phrase "kick at the cat". Our ship's cat sez it's high time :-)

I had thought I'd perhaps suggest that you have a chat with a DUTCH immigration counsel. As an FDP having immigrated to Canada many, many years ago, and having, as a Canadian, assisted a number of people from the High Himalayas to get settled here, I think I can say with some authority that advice obtained from approved sources in the destination country beats, hands down, any advice obtained in the country of origin, but I see that walvisch has already put you wise to that :-)

Like he, I would not, even if I could, settle again in my native land. While my family there was still alive, I would visit, of course, And I'd sit there in the lap of the family understanding every word they were saying. While failing UTTERLY to understand why they bothered to say it :-0)! Their norms, mores, ethics, and modi operandi had all become foreign to me.

You spoke of learning Dutch. Lovely language, but odd :-). I actually find Afrikaans a little easier. When I got off the train in Vancouver those many years ago, I had four words of English to my name. But English is a simple language, so it wasn't much of a job to "get over the hump".

Many long years ago, when Canada was still a "dominion", we had a Minister of the Interior, a good Ontario-born boy by the name of Clifford Sifton, who understood fully that English "remittance men" had NO hope of becoming successful farmers on the Canadian Prairies because both soil and climate are so different from those of the Sceptered Isle. Sifton therefore set out to recruit from such lands as the steppes of Russia and the Ukraine what he referred to as "sturdy European peasants in sheep skin coats". It pleases me that I (nearly) qualify as one of those.

Settlement of the Canadian Prairies was, as you may know, a sine qua non in those days, as the dominion had to be protected from "foreign incursions". But that is a different, if fascinating, story. Success in the settlement enterprise has meant, however, that Canada has, over a century and a half, been able to accept American refugees in huge numbers, so if the Netherlands fail you, there are options :-)!

All the best,

TP

[hartcjhart]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Hello again, Naomi. Could you just reach over an give your kitty-kat a smooch from me? Tell her that I'll retire the phrase "kick at the cat". Our ship's cat sez it's high time :-)

I had thought I'd perhaps suggest that you have a chat with a DUTCH immigration counsel. As an FDP having immigrated to Canada many, many years ago, and having, as a Canadian, assisted a number of people from the High Himalayas to get settled here, I think I can say with some authority that advice obtained from approved sources in the destination country beats, hands down, any advice obtained in the country of origin, but I see that walvisch has already put you wise to that :-)

Like he, I would not, even if I could, settle again in my native land. While my family there was still alive, I would visit, of course, And I'd sit there in the lap of the family understanding every word they were saying. While failing UTTERLY to understand why they bothered to say it :-0)! Their norms, mores, ethics, and modi operandi had all become foreign to me.

You spoke of learning Dutch. Lovely language, but odd :-). I actually find Afrikaans a little easier. When I got off the train in Vancouver those many years ago, I had four words of English to my name. But English is a simple language, so it wasn't much of a job to "get over the hump".

Many long years ago, when Canada was still a "dominion", we had a Minister of the Interior, a good Ontario-born boy by the name of Clifford Sifton, who understood fully that English "remittance men" had NO hope of becoming successful farmers on the Canadian Prairies because both soil and climate are so different from those of the Sceptered Isle. Sifton therefore set out to recruit from such lands as the steppes of Russia and the Ukraine what he referred to as "sturdy European peasants in sheep skin coats". It pleases me that I (nearly) qualify as one of those.

Settlement of the Canadian Prairies was, as you may know, a sine qua non in those days, as the dominion had to be protected from "foreign incursions". But that is a different, if fascinating, story. Success in the settlement enterprise has meant, however, that Canada has, over a century and a half, been able to accept American refugees in huge numbers, so if the Netherlands fail you, there are options :-)!

All the best,

TP

Flemish is fairly easy to learn(and that is from an Englishman who are normally lazy)a lot of the words are similar in sound to Emglish,BUT,you need to to grasp that a lot of words need you be able to say as if you are 'clearing' your throat

[walvisch]

Originally Posted by PocketNaomi

.... I may well not be allowed for immigration reasons to use as a Dutch residence a boat of any type except the Dutch canal barges that already exist in place there and come with fixed addresses at the moorage points that are sold along with the boat. ...

Just to clarify, I do not know if what you say here is true and if that was your takeaway from what I wrote, then I urge you to further investigate and confirm this. I've only have secondhand experience with the Dutch Alien Police, as I am a citizen. My knowledge stems from the experience of my then (1992) foreign girlfriend and her weekly reporting to the police bureau. All I was saying is that you'll need a legal, recognised street address for nearly all dealing with dutch government bureaucracy and that would likely include the alien police as a visa holder. It is well possible that they do not require such stringent residence requirements as they deal with a great variety of non-residents including rejected illegal aliens, 'tolerated' illegals, status holders (person whom had their asylum claim rejected, but whom allowed to stay) etcetera who have a wide range of living arrangements.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by walvisch

Just to clarify, I do not know if what you say here is true and if that was your takeaway from what I wrote, then I urge you to further investigate and confirm this. I've only have secondhand experience with the Dutch Alien Police, as I am a citizen. My knowledge stems from the experience of my then (1992) foreign girlfriend and her weekly reporting to the police bureau. All I was saying is that you'll need a legal, recognised street address for nearly all dealing with dutch government bureaucracy and that would likely include the alien police as a visa holder. It is well possible that they do not require such stringent residence requirements as they deal with a great variety of non-residents including rejected illegal aliens, 'tolerated' illegals, status holders (person whom had their asylum claim rejected, but whom allowed to stay) etcetera who have a wide range of living arrangements.

It is refreshing to hear that the US is not the only place showing a blind eye to illegals and busting the chops of those doing things by the book.

[John Engineer]

HI. DON'T LET ANYONE INTERFERE WITH YOUR DREAMS!
My wife and I have been together and sailing the world for over 40 years now and we have often been told that we can't do what we hope to and it's impossible etc.
We have the advantage that I am a professional marine engineer and boat builder. Also as an experienced commercial captain we delivered various boats around the world.
We have learned that anyone can do it if they want! You DON'T NEED our expertise or experience. (Of course experience helps but now we have internet with most answers)


We have seen people with only a few hundred dollars cross oceans with a young family and hardly any equipment or fridge to the super yachts that get across just the same!
It's like a house. Some live in a poor area and some in a rich area. Often both are still happy.
I am presently in Europe and have a 35 ton 60' sailing ketch that costs me about 350 euros a month in a "Nice marina" with water and electric included. The maintenance costs of a solid hull are really what improvements you want or mostly how shiny you want things? It cost's us around a couple hundred a month to maintain it so it rounds up to about 550 euros a month all included. Now you need to add the annual or bi-annual haul out costs. Around Spain this would cost from 1500 to 3000 Euros to haul and paint.

If the boat is not sailing or going anywhere fast? then a good hull construction often just get scraped clean by a diver each year and not removed to paint for quite a few years.
Bottom line is that it is possible for 2 people to live well with good food and a car (inc car insurance) of about 300/ year in a nice marina in Spain for about 1200 euros / month. Some do it for a lot less!
Our boat does need repairs as does any brand new one that has problems.
If anyone wants our boat? About 30,000 Euros will seal the deal. However it would require another 20,000 including labor to make it accommodate 12 people. The head room is 6'6 to 7'feet. She has a RollsRoyce marine diesel and has a carbon fiber mast with variable pitch prop. She has crossed the ocean with us a few times and can do it many times again!
So this is possibly exactly in the class of "BIG BUT NOT FANCY"
Although we live on land now. We hope the costing numbers help you.
Cheers and FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS.
John