Yacht Delivery Death Traps.

[SurferShane]

I read something else today relevant to my post? Seems things have not changed?

"I don't think I was cut out to be a yacht broker. A flashy guy would wander in and say: 'I'm looking to buy a 50' yacht.'

"Fine,' I'd say. 'Done much sailing, mate?

'Yep. Spent a few days on my cousin's Hobie cat when I was a teenager. Loved it.

"Okay,' I'd say. 'Have you thought about starting with some thing smaller, say a thirty-footer, until you get your confidence up, and then getting a fifty-footer next year?

Wrong move. It took me quite a while to realise that buying a yacht in the mid-1980s was all about image and ego and nothng to do with being capable of sailing it.

Once a bloke was desperate to buy a 30° power boat. He needed finance so I offered to arrange it for him. He gave me all the details of his current loans, and this poor bastard was already in hock up to his eyeballs. He was a hospital orderly and his wife worked as a contract cleaner and if either of them got sick and missed a week of work they were going to start a domino effect of loan defaults and probably lose the house, half the furnishings, the car, as well as the boat. Maybe he could handle it, but it seemed a bit tough on the wife and kids.

"Are you sure you want to go ahead with this? I asked.

He looked at me coldly. 'Listen, mate, do you want this sale or not?

I wasn't so sure that I did and I spent a sleepless night worrying about whether I should arrange the loan for him. By the next day I had talked myself into believing that the customer is always right and he was an adult who knew what he was doing. When I rang him to tell him the loan had been approved, he told me to bugger off. He'd found a bigger boat at another broker and arranged a bigger loan through them. So much for my scruples."

Exerpt from "Chasing Liquid Mountains" by David Adams

[JPA Cate]

The above post is more about buying boats than disastrous deliveries. However, both things can have hidden hazards, and it is ALWAYS caveat emptor.


Ann

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

The above post is more about buying boats than disastrous deliveries. However, both things can have hidden hazards, and it is ALWAYS caveat emptor.


Ann

The whole thing was schizophrenic. If I had a choice of words I might not have used "delivery". My involvement started AFTER the boat had already been purchased with the owner asking if I would be willing to help sail it back to Sydney desperate to have it there as fast as he could. As no one else available had a clue how to sail all of a sudden he has thrown a wad of cash at me and appointed me Captain.

So yes, I am a dubious urchin stepping on the nomenclature of the professionals, but what am I meant to do now that I cannot edit the title? No doubt now the trauma is settling I might have preferred to call the whole thing "Another Voyage of the Damned", which might have avoided the controversy and gave the post a bit more scope?

Since the constructive comments about surveys, I was actually thinking of digressing even further and discussing the legal issues at hand. Maybe a case in negligence against the surveyor and resinding the sale with an action in undue influence as a defence in contract against Don the used boat salesman?

Notwithstanding, as you rightly add; caveat emptor. Why should I say another word that might help a douche? I feel I have already gone beyond any legitimate expectation and should be relieved of any further liability?

For the love of the "Sailor's Confessional"!

[FoxIslander]

"In many cases, write it up and have your story published in Practical Boat Owner or Yachting monthly. Bask in the publication of your heroic achievement."

...or more commonly...make a YouTube vid of the fiasco and beg for Patreon $$$...all while prominently featuring your wife's/GF's cleavage.

[scooper321]

This has been an entertaining thread. Thanks for posting your experience, Shane! I've enjoyed your experience as an informal deliverer of boats (I didn't want to use the phrase "delivery captain", ha ha) and the comments and experience of some of the pros here. At the outset a few others shared some of their experiences in delivering... I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to hear more horror stories and happy endings! I'm still working full time outside the marine industry but I have kicked around the idea of doing some delivery captaining once I retire. So I find these stories educational, too!

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by WAGM65

Biggest beef I had buying a 40’ yacht was survey wasn’t worth the paper it was written on. Seacocks completely shot for a starters, couldn’t imagine taker her to sea. Would be very weary of any old boat without time for a good personal going over.

Replaced 10 seacocks with TrueDesign, no metal involved. Now at least that problem is solved.

Boat Survey...lol.. The biggest scam going IMHO. I have had 4 of them now. All by different people. All incompetent. The things missed would blow your mind. The things they wanted to nit pick about would blow your mind.

Wet decks missed. Discussion in the survey about the cushions but nothing about the seacocks that would not turn. Osmosis so bad we had to peel the boat and re-glass. Mind boggling.

One of the biggest complaints on the last one was that the house batteries which were golf carts did not have rubber insulators on every single connection even though they were in a dedicated battery box with a bolt on lid.

I know a surveyor who condemns every rudder that does not measure dry. In 2 cases the rudders were taken apart to be rebuilt as the insurance company insisted and they were found to be rock solid. Cost was over 6K per rudder

[Sailorman97]

MAKE SURE YOUR SURVEYOR IS ACCREDITED.
=
This means nothing. All my surveyors were accredited. All useless.

[Sailorman97]

I spent many years at a YC where a good number of the members bought boats from down south. So many deliveries that went wrong on boats that were simply not in good enough shape to do the voyage. Then I bought my own big blue water boat and tried to deliver it. It was a fail.

Knowing what I know now I would never get involved in the delivery of a new old boat or if I was to buy another I would not have it delivered I would have it trucked unless it was a short hope.

Most boats when bought are run down. Battery chargers may not work, all sorts of things to go wrong. Others mileage may vary but I will not do that again.

[secrabtree]

Ann - in a few cases I wanted a complete survey of the boat before I accepted the delivery. And for those deliveries I hired Jim Jesse - but usually kept Jim's to myself. Jim usually found EVERY deficiency, even those I considered to not be significant to the completion of the delivery. I even had Jim survey my Cal before the Singlehanded Transpac. I'd choose to repair or replace those things I considered significant to the passage and not those that were not. But when an insurance company or bank required a survey before issuing a policy or granting a loan I had other surveyors to call (upon. Good ones, thorough ones, but not as thorough as Jim. And I would hire the surveyor, I'd not accept a prior survey done for by the owner. I succeeded in losing one delivery because I did not accept a survey that was done at the behest of a previous owner and given to the owner I was about to be hired by. (In that case I felt that the delivery would "trash" the boat. The delivery would have been "safe" but the owner refused to do some minor repairs necessary to make it possible for me to give him a vessel in good condition at the completion of the delivery.

[secrabtree]

Sailorman 97 - When you state "down south" it isn't quite clear what you mean. Pacific or Atlantic? Seattle WA is "down south" of the Juneau AK. Chile is "down south" of Mexico. Cape Town is "down south" of London. And your profile does not state your location.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by secrabtree

Ann - in a few cases I wanted a complete survey of the boat before I accepted the delivery. And for those deliveries I hired Jim Jesse - but usually kept Jim's to myself. Jim usually found EVERY deficiency, even those I considered to not be significant to the completion of the delivery. I even had Jim survey my Cal before the Singlehanded Transpac. I'd choose to repair or replace those things I considered significant to the passage and not those that were not. But when an insurance company or bank required a survey before issuing a policy or granting a loan I had other surveyors to call (upon. Good ones, thorough ones, but not as thorough as Jim. And I would hire the surveyor, I'd not accept a prior survey done for by the owner. I succeeded in losing one delivery because I did not accept a survey that was done at the behest of a previous owner and given to the owner I was about to be hired by. (In that case I felt that the delivery would "trash" the boat. The delivery would have been "safe" but the owner refused to do some minor repairs necessary to make it possible for me to give him a vessel in good condition at the completion of the delivery.

Yep, Jimmy Jesse was a fine, fine surveyor. He was hired by the guys who wanted to buy Dominique (my Jim's Yankee 30), and asked what price we'd decided upon when it was over. [Not really the kind of question a surveyor should ask, imo.] My Jim says, $30,000. Jimmy responds, "My, that's a lot of money for a 10 yr. old 30 ft. boat!" My Jim is now looking dreadfully stern.

Jimmy then says, "....but it is clearly worth it. This boat is better than new!"

Whew!

Ann

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by FoxIslander

"In many cases, write it up and have your story published in Practical Boat Owner or Yachting monthly. Bask in the publication of your heroic achievement."

...or more commonly...make a YouTube vid of the fiasco and beg for Patreon $$$...all while prominently featuring your wife's/GF's cleavage.

I am not going into the identity of our precious 75 year old cargo, especially after she was so plesant to be on board with and bought colour to the fiasco. I will however say your suggestion is terribly "vanilla".

It is though worth noting the couple from the Australian YouTube sensation Free Range Sailing are on a Clansmen 30. While I am critical of the lack of beam, I recently saw a decent one going for $AUS 20k. Compared to those trying to do the same on a 50' boat, you litterally could be living on Moet and lobster while those in the "million dollar yacht game" ration cans of baked beans?

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by scooper321

This has been an entertaining thread. Thanks for posting your experience, Shane! I've enjoyed your experience as an informal deliverer of boats (I didn't want to use the phrase "delivery captain", ha ha) and the comments and experience of some of the pros here. At the outset a few others shared some of their experiences in delivering... I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to hear more horror stories and happy endings! I'm still working full time outside the marine industry but I have kicked around the idea of doing some delivery captaining once I retire. So I find these stories educational, too!

First, thanks for keeping me out of the Professional domain. Still, I know this young guy who held himself out to be a Master Class 4 Captain when he in reality only had a generic recreational boating licence. I repaired a million dollar powerboat he was skippering after he ran it into a wharf. After another of his disaster I suggested he join the French Foreign Legion, but I honestly don't think he was cut out for it. No, I am not a Shipwright. It was a bloody big fibreglass surfboard!

I would not do it again as "Captain". Way too much stress and drama dealing with owners. After enjoying living peacefully on my own little boats, I have no time for other people's baggage. It's easy for the Pros to throw their lists at you, but in reality there are very few boats that will satisfy all the criteria. If you tried enforcing things at this standard you would likely have a nervous breakdown before you left the dock.

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Sailorman97

MAKE SURE YOUR SURVEYOR IS ACCREDITED.
=
This means nothing. All my surveyors were accredited. All useless.

In passing, the survey I had done on a yacht I purchased in the Whitsunday was excellent. I cannot fault it. Unfortunately I am on another boat and cannot access the document for the Surveyor's name.

On the other hand, the Surveyor and Broker involved with "Knox Revenge" verged on criminal. I am a Lawyer and would objectively defend this opinion. Call it seaman's intuition, when the owner asked if I wanted him to send me a copy of the survey I said NO. I wanted to see the boat in person. This is also why I didn't want to take any sort of upfront payment that would have, as it did, make me stick with the nightmare.

The Broker, or as I prefer to call him Don the used boat salesman's description of the boat was even more laughable. The long tired quasi ocean racer was a family friendly cruiser that was in sail away condition. One of the only things that was likely correct is that the new island bench in the saloon cost $10k. It was the only solid teak object in the production yacht. Neither the Broker or the Surveyor thought to mention it was free standing and as it did likely to go flying and injure someone at sea!

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by SurferShane

Once a bloke was desperate to buy a 30° power boat. He needed finance so I offered to arrange it for him. He gave me all the details of his current loans, and this poor bastard was already in hock up to his eyeballs. ... Maybe he could handle it, but it seemed a bit tough on the wife and kids.

Having owned a mortgage company up until the 2008 debacle I saw that ALL the time.

Legally prohibited from providing financial advise, STILL tried to talk a few folks out of the deal, but no, told to mind my own business.

Yet we were the people excoriated when the greedy fools lost everything because they treated their house like a checking account to keep up with the Jones's and didn't have a chair when the music stopped.