why didn't this happen???...

[hillbillypirate]

it has been a month or so now since the event, and i've mentally re-examined decisions made, both good and bad, that placed me where i was. there is one detail i haven't really been able to wrap my head around. i'll omit gory details for the moment, but am happy to share if requested for the benefit of lessons learned. here's a synopsis:

singlehanded, heading north, maybe 20 miles off the mid-atlantic coast of florida trying to make way into blowy north/northeast winds that are making for some interesting conditions. in a series of untimely, unexpected events, i find myself with no form of propulsion; engine will not start, reefed genoa completely separated at the masthead, main halyard chaffed up there as well with its remains falling down inside the mast.

while the systems are failing, considering the conditions, the boat herself, '81 hans christian 38T, is handing the situation. i'm concerned, but not overly so, as i ride it out waiting for my tow membership to pay for itself. what i expected to happen was that the boat would "weather vane" into the winds and seas. that did not happen, and no amount of trying to remedy that helped. she remained starboard beam on to wind and seas until assistance arrived. this is what made me most concerned. had the seas been breaking, and especially over the beam, i think i would've been in a more precarious circumstance.

my question is why didn't she weathervane into the winds/seas? my initial thoughts being bow into would've been a safer position that would've happened without input, or am i just not understanding what was going at the time?

i'm here and posing the question so obviously things didn't get as bad as i felt they could've, but i'd like to know what, in that specific circumstance, i could have done to make bad better?

thanks for everyone's input.

[Lake-Effect]

Hoisting a storm sail (assuming spare halyard) would have promoted the desired weathervaning, and might have even been enough propulsion to get you out of trouble.

[richr]

Sea anchor or drogue of some kind? Even a few warps off the bow would likely give enough drag to hold you into the wind.

It's hard to comment without knowing the yacht, but many yachts (pretty much anything designed since 1970) has a cut-away forward keel, if not a fin. That means there's not much lateral resistance under the bows. That's why you don't lie head-to-wind.

You might have been comfier running off under bare poles than lying a-beam. Risk would be (if conditions extreme, which it doesn't sound as though they were) you could broach before a big wave and get rolled. But lying a-beam you're at risk of that anyway and at least you'd have steerage.

[Paul Elliott]

Your boat has a long keel, but like virtually all boats still has more underwater area aft than forward, and a fair amount of windage up forward (especially if your reefed jib was still hoisted). Without sail area aft, your bow will blow downwind.

I don't know how your helm was turned, but it sounds like you may have been essentially "hove to", which isn't a bad configuration under the circumstances.

[TrentePieds]

That behaviour is what one would expect of a HC38T in the circumstances. Like Paul Rlliot sez: The fundamental design of the boat is such that given your particular circumstances she would fall her head off because the Centre of Lateral Effort of the underwater part of the hull would be AFT of the Centre of Lateral Effort of the rig as then "worn". A moment arm therefore exists twixt the two that would turn the boat's head away from the wind. At some point in the turning the moment arm will be reduced to zero and the turning will stop. The boat would then essentially be "hove to", but in the circumstances, since you apparently had no main and a blown out genny, the term "lying ahull" might be more appropriate.

Any "modern design that is intended to be driven primalily by her headsail will act like that. Fin-keeled boats will do it, of course, but so will "full-keeled boats with the forefoot is cut away as drastically as is that of the HC 38T.

TP

[meirriba]

Why did you expect the boat to weathervane? Normal boat without sails shows transom to the wind as the bow is lighter and with less leeway resistance than the stern.
To point the bow into the wind you need some sail area behind the point of revolution, e.g. some mainsail or as mentioned above storm sail on the mast (not on headstay)

[svfinlandia]

Welcome to the forum!
I would recommend a drogue or at least something like a long warp from the bow. I have a full keel ketch rig and she always lies abeam to the wind when left to herself. In your circumstance I would have tossed out my storm drogue and raised my mizzen sail.

Also a Hillbilly, but not a Pirate - Al, S/V Finlandia

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Hoisting a storm sail (assuming spare halyard) would have promoted the desired weathervaning, and might have even been enough propulsion to get you out of trouble.

This. Even a tiny scrap hanked on to a halyard and Highfield lever on the deck ("removable staysail stay") would have helped.

[duefocena]

Having to rescue the crew of a small sailboat in Hawaii we instructed them to deploy their bow anchor to keep their nose into the wind and waves.

It stabilized the boat in the 20' seas and 40kt winds to the effect that we could extract them one by one.

[boatman61]

The behaviour under the circumstances you list are pretty much the same for any boat.. I don't know of a single one that will 'weather vane' into the wind.. lets face it.. the position of the mast alone should give one a clue.. chuck in the windage of the standing rigging.
A boat needs some kind of drive as she falls off the wind to push her back.. it was not there.

[Cheechako]

add to the above comments, were there much for seas/waves? Water is far stronger than wind, even if the boat attempts to head up, a wave slaps it and it turns down..

[akprb]

20 miles off central Florida heading north with a northerly blowing. That must have been very unpleasant to say the least.

An extra day or two in Fort Pierce or Canaveral next time.

As to your question it’s pretty much been answered so far. To beat a dead horse boats don’t weathervane into the wind. You need something off the bow or a scrap of sail and heave to.

With 20 miles of room easy to wait it out but yes, far from comfortable:-)

What was the rest of the story???

[Steadman Uhlich]

If a boat is in waves, and has no anchor out and no propulsion (engine) and no warps or drogue, it will naturally turn "beam to wind and waves."

The effect happens when a large ship loses power.
It happens to powerboats that lose power.
It happens with sailboats that are "lying ahull."
It happens to logs that are floating, something you can observe if you ever see a floating log.

It can be dangerous, if the sea state has high enough waves, and the waves do not have to be very high. Hence, sailors or boaters or mariners want to avoid having their boat/ship "beam to the waves" when in a storm, especially when without power.

Hope that helps.

[jmschmidt]

Gulf Stream may have been a factor?

[Suijin]

Next time throw some warps off the back or even better a drogue or sea anchor. That said, stiff wind against the stream was going to be a washing machine no matter what and getting the boat to "behave" would be a challenge.