whoops... there goes the chain!

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

Estarzinger, do you mean to say that you only used thie 5200 to stick the two C Links together and never peened the pins? Impressive stuff this product but dont think it exists in Europe where i am.
Andrew

Salty Metals, it is 3 M 5200, and I would be surprised if it were not imported into Europe. It is a very strong glue, and our previous boat was caulked with it along the hull to deck join. As caulking, it makes the whatever-it-is quite resistant to removal.

Ann

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

As caulking, it makes the whatever-it-is quite resistant to removal.

And that's putting it mildly.

[Jim Cate]

Evans, thanks for elaborating on your 5200 usage. I hadn't realize that you were using it without peening the pins... very good info. I think that you also posted a photo of the Dyneema lashing that you added. That thread has disappeared into history, so could you possibly either repost the photo or describe the method you used? IIRC it was not a soft shackle... that would be the easiest to use, but I suspect the button knot might jam in the gypsy and otherwise be damaged.

And for double U... no one is suggesting that you should use joiners if you don't feel safe with them. If I follow your post correctly, you are selling them commercially, but don't feel that they are safe for use because they look shonky to you. PErhaps you should try a different supplier for your stock, some outfit like Crosby for instance. You still might not want to use them, but you wouldn't be selling a product that you felt to be unsuited for purpose... or at least you would have data sheets that describe the product reliably.

None of my business, I admit...

Jim

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

could you possibly describe the method

Hey Jim,

it was pretty simple.

1/8" dyneema (1100kg strength), wrapped 2 or 3 times (so 4 or 6 strands carrying load), with a shortish end to end splice (sewn).

It ran thru the windless well. It did pull up some mud occasionally.

Was probably stronger than the chain, but as you have pointed out really only need to carry low load since that is the most likely time when the C link could come apart.

I'm not sure it is needed . . . . but can't hurt - is cheap and easy to do.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

BTW . . . . with regards to how well 5200 does in this application . . . .I can say that every time I opened ours (over 20 years) it was 100% secure, I had to use a thin metal wedge to crack the 5200...

Thanks for the info. I had never considered the peening to be completely trustworthy, hence my thought of brazing them together. I had not considered 5200, but that may be the way I go. I also like the idea of seizing the links with monel wire; I may do both.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

Estarzinger, do you mean to say that you only used thie 5200 to stick the two C Links together and never peened the pins? Impressive stuff this product but dont think it exists in Europe where i am.
Andrew

Products from 3M are rarely seen in Europe but check the range of products made by Sika and you should find something with similar bonding properties.

[alctel]

I have 60' of 5/16 chain and thinking of adding another 150 foot to it for when I go to places with coral - would there be any issue with using a D shackle to connect the two halves of chain?

I don't have a windless/gypsy so not worried about it jamming

[JPA Cate]

alctel,

Commonly, one does not anchor very deeply in coral waters (although there are exceptions), but I think you will eventually want some sort of windlass. I'll assume a 45 lb anchor, and 5/16 chain weighs 1.10 lbs. per foot. So, each time you go to raise it, assuming you have about 125 ft. out, you're going to be lifting the weight of the chain by hand for the depth you're in, then the remaining chain plus the anchor. You won't be the first person to find it wearisome, and, in fact, you'll want to consider protecting your back for your older age. So, I think you're going to be wanting a windlass, and at that point, you'll have a decision to make, whether to discard (hopefully sell) the old chain, and buy new, or to use a connecting link. If you do a lot of cruising in coral water, you'll be glad to have a windlass. Just my ho, ymmv.

Do carry a spare float to buoy a chain and anchor if you have to leave it for later retrieval. I'd also suggest, based on our experiences, to buoy the anchor when anchoring in rivers with unknown obstructions on the bottom.

Ann

[MikeFergie]

We also don’t get 5200 our part of the world but Sika 291 marine is the product we use

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by MikeFergie

We also don’t get 5200 our part of the world but Sika 291 marine is the product we use

5200 is infinitely more adhesive than 291. 5200 is basically a permanent adhesive that seals. 291 is a sealant with medium adhesion. Very different stuff.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

alctel,

If you do a lot of cruising in coral water, you'll be glad to have a windlass. Just my ho, ymmv.


Ann

Well put, Ann! Just my thoughts as well.

[robert sailor]

Thanks for the excellent thread Jim, learned a few new things, Great!

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Paul L

5200 is infinitely more adhesive than 291. 5200 is basically a permanent adhesive that seals. 291 is a sealant with medium adhesion. Very different stuff.

Mate of mine in the industry tells me that many of the sika range are essentially the same as the big 600ml sausages you get at hardwares cheap.
He says he got that from the sika rep they buy from.
Not sure how true it is but i have the feet of all my 250 watt panels glued down with it, no fasteners, and they have seen 80 knots.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I think you will eventually want some sort of windlass. I'll assume a 45 lb anchor, and 5/16 chain weighs 1.10 lbs. per foot. So, each time you go to raise it, assuming you have about 125 ft. out, you're going to be lifting the weight of the chain by hand for the depth you're in, then the remaining chain plus the anchor. You won't be the first person to find it wearisome, and, in fact, you'll want to consider protecting your back for your older age. So, I think you're going to be wanting a windlass, and at that point, you'll have a decision to make, whether to discard (hopefully sell) the old chain, and buy new, or to use a connecting link. If you do a lot of cruising in coral water, you'll be glad to have a windlass.

Quite correct. Even cruising in non coral waters a windlass can be invaluable in many situations. I had a problem once finding a spot where my old CQR would dig in. I dropped it 5-6 times, moving from one part of the harbor to another looking for a set. It was a 45 lb anchor and only 25' of chain the rest rope. Even though I was just 30 and in pretty good condition after a while I wasn't sure I could haul the anchor in another time. Finally moved around a point and dug in. Decided right then that a windlass was in my future, not just for ease and convenience but also potentially a serious safety issue.

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Do carry a spare float to buoy a chain and anchor if you have to leave it for later retrieval. I'd also suggest, based on our experiences, to buoy the anchor when anchoring in rivers with unknown obstructions on the bottom.

Ann

Learned that lesson the hard way and it needlessly cost me an anchor. If you don't have a buoy use your oldest fender.

[JPA Cate]

@ alctel,
Something I failed to mention, but that is part of my thinking about this is that, occasionally, one cops an unfavorable wind shift, where the wind comes into the anchorage, making it a lee shore, and builds fairly rapidly. This is the sort of situation where you might have to buoy the anchor and chain and just leave, to return for it later. It is not a common occurrence, by any means, but one in which it is much more difficult to raise the anchor by hand, particularly if it happens to be dark and rainy, so it is slippery, too.

Ann