whoops... there goes the chain!

[stormalong]

Believe me I know chain is expensive BUT it is a lot cheaper than the boat. I look at that expense as insurance. Just think about every time you anchored instead of picking up an unknown mooring or going into a marina.

I think I am on my fourth chain in 28 years of ownership. I would never trust the safety of my boat and crew to a joiner link.

I once rode out a 74 MPH storm at anchor. I had enough to worry about without a questionable link.

[Teknishn]

Jim..I feel for ya there! Lost a Bruce anchor and 30-feet of chain a few weeks ago in New Smyrna Beach, Fla. due to a joiner failing. Luckily had another anchor out due to high tidal currents. Prevented a collision with another boat at anchor nearby. Spent a couple of days tossing my spare 16-lb Danforth about trying to snag the anchor and/or chain. Back gave out so moved on. Spent a few uncomfortable nights over the next few days praying that my 25-lb Danforth and 5-foot of 5/16th's chain would hold me until I got down to Titusville to purchase another anchor and more chain.

Oh! For those in the States, and this was mentioned on another thread...West Marine price matching. Purchased more chain in Vero Beach from a small marine store then went to WM for some other stuff (was convenient to the grocery store). WM price matched the anchor chain even though it wasn't the same brand/model! Probably the first time I walked out of WM with a smile on my face seeing as how I'd just saved $2/ft on anchor chain :-)

[JPA Cate]

Well, we've never worried about the joining link. Sorry Tekknishn didn't get his back, he'll never know for sure it was the connecting link or a bad weld. We, at least have the half left from the forged one, and probably the other half's at the bottom of the anchor locker, for that matter.

Someone mentioned tack welding the joins, sounds a good idea, but don't know how stress risers might affect the link. In this instance, crouched on the dock, with a lead kellet for an anvil, I held the chain with the vice grips and Jim peened over the pins, and we didn't stop till we both were happy with it. And I won't worry about it, because, they have worked so well, though never tested in the 70+ kn, only gusts to 65.

Someone wrote that the chain is a small part of the value of the boat, and this is certainly true. As a matter of fact, a new chain for us is under consideration, but I am content to go on record here, as not thinking it is urgent. The oldest join in our chain is 15 years, approximately. It was closely inspected (as you might imagine, we had the wind up, so to speak). The chain, though, is due for re-galvanize, anyhow. So, time will tell. I have to say, I felt really happy when I saw the chain snagged between the fluke and the stock of that little sand anchor!

Cheers, guys,

Ann

[Simi 60]

Glad you got it back.

I wonder how a soft shackle or two would go?
I am sure they would go through the windlass OK.

I am in the same boat, chain needs regalvanising and will be buying another 100 metres before getting the galv done.
I don't want to dump the old stuff, decent 1/2" chain costs $2000+ and the stuff we had looked almost new 2 years ago and now the galv is gone so not buying new every 2 years that's for sure.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by double u

why not have the miscreant welded shut & replace it every other year? on the job here we sell them too, I never without voicing my sincere mistrust because by their looks I judge them...

Why not weld them shut? Well, first I would worry that the welding would alter the metallurgy enough to affect the strength and secondly, i don't carry welding equipment on board and lugging 85 meters of chain to a welding shop when you don't have a car is a project... otherwise, sure, why not?

But the reality is that basically I do trust them... still! We started full time cruising in 1986, and we hardly ever go into marinas. We even less often use moorings that we don't know. So, we have spent on the order of ten thousand nights at anchor, all around the Pacific. There have been lots of strong winds and heavy seas to test the gear, and no joiner has ever failed under load. I have now identified a previously ignored failure mode, and will henceforth check the joiners when NOT under load to be sure that the peens are still intact and the halves securely held together.

This is the reason for this confessional thread... to alert other users of the hazard and to suggest mitigation by inspection. Many folks echo your inherent mistrust of the links, and that's fine with me. If you use higher strength chain (G-43 or G-700) for lightness, etc, then the links are indeed a weak point and should not be used if you want to count upon the full strength of the chain.

We all must make choices about our gear. The above is the rationale for one of mine. YMMV...

Jim

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

The chain, though, is due for re-galvanize, anyhow. So, time will tell. I have to say, I felt really happy when I saw the chain snagged between the fluke and the stock of that little sand anchor!

This brings up a thought for me. I had my old chain regalvanized and didn't think to remove a shackle off one end. The threads and pin hole in the shackle were completely filled with zinc in the process and I have not been able to remove that shackle with heating, beating, soaking with PB Blaster, vises and vise grips and a very large pipe wrench. If I ever need to remove it, it will take a grinder.

Maybe running a connector through the galvanizing with the rest of the chain would be a permanent fix.

[Wotname]

Crikey Jim, sorry to hear of your chain troubles but happy to hear that it has been resolved. Enjoy the regatta

[hellosailor]

Skip-
Maybe you could "dezincify" it by electrolysis? Wire up a suitable power source and other electrode, push a charge through it to move the zinc off the fitting. Wait patiently and let the magic work. And maybe, it will "corrode" in just the right places?

[olaf hart]

Originally Posted by SaltyMetals

An interesting story, tks for sharing. We are all lead to think that those C-links are perfect. I have found that after a few years the chain links that are closest to the C-link tend to lose their galv coating so start going rusty. I just cut them out and use a new C-link. Mine is 10mm ( about 3/8") and i always use the Crosby links and then give them about 3 coats of zinc paint. So far no more rusty chain links. The Crosby links are actually 3/8" so it takes a bit of fiddling to get them in place. Never thought of "glueing" them together as well.
Andrew
"Genial Bee"

Wonder how JB Weld would go as a glue?

[ggray]

How do these connecting links pass over the windlass gypsy?

I was always skeptical of the strength of them as there is a lot of "missing" steel as compared to a chain link. Half, I'd say. But I was surprised just now to see that for a given size--3/8 anyway-- they have the same working load as proof. So either the link is bigger or the steel is better.

So unless they pass easily over the gypsy, I'd favor one of these connectors, (although I can see that you would have to help either over the gypsy):


https://www.peerlesschain.com/produc...e-Clevis-Link/


https://www.thecrosbygroup.com/produ...necting-links/

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by ggray

How do these connecting links pass over the windlass gypsy?

I was always skeptical of the strength of them as there is a lot of "missing" steel as compared to a chain link. Half, I'd say. But I was surprised just now to see that for a given size--3/8 anyway-- they have the same working load as proof. So either the link is bigger or the steel is better.

So unless they pass easily over the gypsy, I'd favor one of these connectors, (although I can see that you would have to help either over the gypsy):


https://www.peerlesschain.com/produc...e-Clevis-Link/


https://www.thecrosbygroup.com/produ...necting-links/

If you are asking how do the c-links work in the gypsy, they are essentially the same dimensions as the chain links, and pass through the gypsy and roller seamlessly.

I've not tried them personally,but looking at the dimensions of the two stronger links you posted, I'm pretty sure neither one would work in our Maxwell 1200 windlass, especially the Crosby one. Perhaps someone has tried the Peerless model and can report.

Jim

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by skipmac

This brings up a thought for me. I had my old chain regalvanized and didn't think to remove a shackle off one end. The threads and pin hole in the shackle were completely filled with zinc in the process and I have not been able to remove that shackle with heating, beating, soaking with PB Blaster, vises and vise grips and a very large pipe wrench. If I ever need to remove it, it will take a grinder.

Maybe running a connector through the galvanizing with the rest of the chain would be a permanent fix.

Skip, I've freed up "over galvanized" shackles by soaking in HCl (swimming pool acid) for a while. Takes the zinc right off and doesn't rapidly attack the steel. And we have had joiners in the chain when regalvanized and it did seem to fill in the joint between the halves and around the pins. Haven't done the experiment to try to separate the halves post galvo, though, so don't know if it is effective in keeping them together.

Jim

[Group9]

Thanks! We used joiners (c-links) on our rode several years ago and we never had a problem, but I never quit thinking about them. I never considered the type of failure you experienced. Good to know if we ever use on again.

[MAJICDAN]

I use G-70 FORGED repair links with pins and cotter keys. These are much stronger than my G-4 chain. They are easy to inspect everytime you drop the hook. I do not use the double "S" type repair links. They are prone to failure, hard to inspect, and are not as strong as your chain.

[hzcruiser]

Thanks for sharing this story, Jim!

Last year I replaced an oval quick link (from the PO) like this:



which kept locking up in the gipsy with a C-link. Fingers crossed that it'll hold just as good as the quick link, but I'll certainly keep an eye on it!

The link is about 20m from the anchor, hence shortening the chain to avoid it is not a good option. I could turn the 100m chain end to end though.... only the last 20m in the bottom of the anchor well have gathered more rust than the top of the pile.
That was before I put a drain into the well.