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Old 26-10-2017, 08:47   #421
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Amigo....
Don't let the panic pushers deter you.
Here's the thing, cruisers like to make it sound harder than it is as a way to make them (us) sound special. But trust me...If I can do it...and others I've shared an anchorage with can do it....sheesh...it ain't that hard! Now would I buy a new boat and a week later cast off on a South Pacific Crossing? No that's just stupid...but would you do that either? No. Most people learn as you go. If you are around Melbourne Florida in Two weeks go to the SSCA (Seven Seas Cruising Association) even and attend some seminars and hang out and talk to real cruisers, people who have done and are doing it.

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Old 26-10-2017, 08:51   #422
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Amigo....
Don't let the panic pushers deter you.
Here's the thing, cruisers like to make it sound harder than it is as a way to make them (us) sound special. But trust me...If I can do it...and others I've shared an anchorage with can do it....sheesh...it ain't that hard! Now would I buy a new boat and a week later cast off on a South Pacific Crossing? No that's just stupid...but would you do that either? No. Most people learn as you go. If you are around Melbourne Florida in Two weeks go to the SSCA (Seven Seas Cruising Association) even and attend some seminars and hang out and talk to real cruisers, people who have done and are doing it.

www.ssca.org


Thanks mate. Unfortunately I am in Melbourne Australia, I am brand new to the whole community, and sailing but from what I have learned so far this is going to be one hell of an adventure and a big learning curve.
Haha and just for a side note I won't me going to far offshore unless I have someone to teach me at least not for a year or so.
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Old 26-10-2017, 09:03   #423
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Hey guys,
Ok so, I read this and it scared the life out of me.
I recently decided that I wanted to give up the rat race and semi-retire at 33, I have just purchased a 45ft Beneteau, and have just started taking sailing lessons and live about courses.
My question now is with no sailing experience (mind you I can read Nav charts and know what boats look like on my radar), how am I ever going to fulfil my dream of circumnavigating the globe unless I thrown myself out there.
Look I'm not going to just decided to sail from home to panama but now I don't know how much experience is experience, especially considering I had thought I had been on the open ocean but now realise I don't think I have.
Fear and a healthy respect of the ocean is a good thing - you can absolutely die out there. However, that crippling fear of what could happen will keep you at the dock forever.

My advice? Get out there and sail with people who know more than you do - you'll be surprised how much and how fast you learn. Even though I have little interest in racing, I learned almost everything I know about keeping calm when things go wrong from a good buddy who loves to race.
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Old 26-10-2017, 09:16   #424
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

A bit off topic, but just saw what I think is a nice example of keeping calm when things go wrong from Team Scallywag on the Volvo Ocean Race -

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Old 26-10-2017, 11:57   #425
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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My question now is with no sailing experience (mind you I can read Nav charts and know what boats look like on my radar), how am I ever going to fulfil my dream of circumnavigating the globe unless I thrown myself out there.
You start by learning your boat by taking it out on some local sails in your home port area. Then you start cruising by doing some coastal cruising, which is just like the first except you end up in different places. You keep doing this getting more experienced till you are ready for longer trips.

It's not that hard except on forums and in books.
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Old 26-10-2017, 12:36   #426
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Ok so, I read this and it scared the life out of me.
No offense intended, but honestly, if reading a bunch of random comments from strangers on the internet can scare the life out of you, then you are NOT ready!

That's the thing. People who need to be TOLD that they are ready, are NOT ready! People who are scared by internet comments, are NOT ready!

When you are really ready, you will just go. You won't need someone to tell you to go, and you won't be discouraged by people telling you not to go.
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Old 26-10-2017, 12:53   #427
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Caldawson,

There's an active local racing scene in your neck of the woods. Get involved at one of the smaller clubs, and join the Friday Evening series. You will learn plenty chasing boats around the course, you will sail in most weather. And, you're right, if you haven't been 200 mi from sight of land, you haven't really experienced the ocean, and Bass Straits isn't the open ocean, either.

Port Philip Bay has some good tidal challenges involving learning about local conditions and how to work them to your advantage. This will make you aware of factoring in tidal states and behaviors wherever your sailing takes you. You will learn how to sail more effectively. If you crew on other people's boats, you will learn a lot about what to do and what to not do, on their dollars.

Enjoy. You won't get rich doing sailing, but you can have a really GOOD time!

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Old 26-10-2017, 13:41   #428
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Listen to the locals. Someone halve a world apart?
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Old 26-10-2017, 14:06   #429
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Reading Bowditch is NOT the way to get started. Remember also that this forum is inhabited by members of vastly varying experience and competence. For those with vast amounts of both it can be difficult to come "down to earth" and not let the discussion wander into reams that of necessity must seem abstrusce and fearsome to a landsman.

So begin here: There is nothing wrong with a 45 footer - even a Beneteau ;-). I've taught many raw beginners to sail in a 65 foot ketch, and it obviously helps the novice to have a sailor aboard, provided he doesn't try to blind you with science.

First thing you gotta get comfortable with is hoisting and "striking" sail. How you do that depends largely on just how your boat is rigged. The older and more traditional the rig is, the more obvious it is what needs to be done and how to do it. The way to get started is to stay alongside your dock and wait for a day when a gentle wind comes in over the pointy end of the boat. Stay tied up. Hoist the main. Lower the main. Do it again as many times as it takes to get comfortable with it. Then do the same with the headsail. Then do it all over again hoisting first the main, then the headsl. As many times as it takes to make the "evolution" second nature. So that's that. Now that's outta the way.

Go home. Come back in a few days and hoist the main. Now reef it to the first reef point. Then shake out the reef and hoist to "full main" again. As often as it takes to get it down pat. Then do it to the second reef point. And after that to the third reef point if you have one. It's all about getting familiar and comfortable with how the stuff works while you are safely tied up alongside with nothing to worry about other than learning.

An "ordinary seaman" is expected to "hand, reef and steer" with prompt proficiency. Learn to hand and reef while you are alongside.

Steering is a different beast. You can only learn to do it while you are under way under sail. In the traditional sense "steering" doesn't include getting away from your dock and back in again, so we will save that for later.

Pick a day with 8 or 10 or 12 knots of wind. No more. You need 8 knots to make the boat's responses to what you do with the helm and the rig really obvious. You don't want mor'n 12, lest you should get anxious and forget to learn :-) Remember you are not racing, and trying to trim sails as a racing crew would do it is a waste of time. Turn the boat (you'll be under power at this point) so the wind comes over the pointy end and run out the main sheet so it's really, really slack. Then hoist the main the way you taught yourself to do it at the dock. Then raise the headsl the way you taught yourself. Let the boat turn away from the wind about 60º and pull on the sheets till the the sails just "belly out". Now you are sailing. Kill the engine. You are still sailing. Turn your face to the wind so that you feel the wind equally in both ears. If you are looking in a direction forward of the beam. keep the sheets taught enuff that the sails just fill, but no more. Ease the mainsheet till the edge by the mast collapses. We say the sail is "luffing". Harden the sheet again till the sail no longer luffs. That the "proper" trim for that "point of sail". Now turn further away from the wind. If you are now looking in a direction aft of the beam, ease out the sheets. That's all there is to "getting under sail". Nothing difficult about it at all. Remember: You DON'T have to trim you sails perfectly. You are just a learner. Play with the sail trim till you understand how the boat reacts to tautening and easing the sheets. Once you have a reasonable grasp of that, you can begin to put the finer points on it.

Getting away from your dock and back into it is a kettle of fish of a different colour because it has nothing to do with sailing. It has to do with power-boating. We had a discussion a few days ago about an evolution called "warping". It's the proper way to get into and out of tight spaces and all old-timers know how to do it. remember that it's not so long ago that boats DIDN'T have engines. and warping was a necessity. We can come back to that.

All that just to make the point that there is nothing difficult (or dangerous) about LEARNING to sail. As long as you are systematic and sensible. "Cruising" is something else again because it requires seamanship. Bowditch is old-fashioned and at the "Masters" level. As I said: Not the place to start :-)

You can learn to sail in two week-ends. Seamanship takes a lifetime to learn. So off you go to learn to hand and reef. Then come back and tell us how you did, and tell us about any specific problems you may have had, then we can give you specific advice on how to overcome the problem.

I'm off to the boat for a few days, but when I come back I'm gonna draw up a diagram for the benefit of MyBeloved about how to warp into and out of a tight slip. When it's done, I'll post it :-)

All the best

TP
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Old 26-10-2017, 14:35   #430
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

"How much experience is experience"?

A fine question indeed.

My take: I had ZERO, NULL, ZILCH ocean crossing experience before our first crossing.

And I do not think our sailing experience will help us anything should we get into a real bad position.

Experience is gained while doing things. It is not something one comes to the table with.

Experience may/will lead to complacency. Unless you are one of those very sharp and intellectually lofty units. I am not.

Cheers,
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Old 26-10-2017, 14:44   #431
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

"Experience is something you get right after you needed it."
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Old 26-10-2017, 15:58   #432
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/37...pacific-ocean/

these people 'rescued' from what looks to me to be a serviceable boat.

"Two American mariners and their canine companions have been rescued after drifting off course and spending months stranded in the Pacific Ocean, the US Navy said Thursday.
originally set sail from their home state of Hawaii this spring.They planned a voyage of more than 2,000 miles (3,200 kilometers) south to Tahiti aboard a small sailboat.Their engine broke on May 30 but the companions thought they could carry on and make landfall using wind power."


I understand that it's quite rare to make that voyage by sail because of prevailing wind and current obstacles.
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Old 26-10-2017, 17:16   #433
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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"Experience is something you get right after you needed it."
++1!

Exactly.

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Old 26-10-2017, 17:19   #434
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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(...) originally set sail from their home state of Hawaii this spring.They planned a voyage of more than 2,000 miles (3,200 kilometers) south to Tahiti aboard a small sailboat.Their engine broke on May 30 but the companions thought they could carry on and make landfall using wind power." (...)


I understand that it's quite rare to make that voyage by sail because of prevailing wind and current obstacles.
Under sail alone it is a regular passage. Not difficult.

If it is rare then probably due to the general remoteness of the take off and landfall points.

Cheers,
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Old 26-10-2017, 18:24   #435
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Thanks mate. Unfortunately I am in Melbourne Australia, I am brand new to the whole community, and sailing but from what I have learned so far this is going to be one hell of an adventure and a big learning curve.
Haha and just for a side note I won't me going to far offshore unless I have someone to teach me at least not for a year or so.
Yes, its a big learning curve, but far from an insurmountable one. Build some training + on the water time and you will be fine. Prudent decision making goes a long way.

One of the things that keeps me sailing is that the learning curve is almost infinite....always more to learn.
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