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Old 15-03-2017, 11:50   #361
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

As the 49ers found out....you have to move a lot of dirt in order to get to the gold.
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Old 16-03-2017, 07:28   #362
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
How does the reader determine attitude of the writer on the internet?

Its extremely difficult.

Another point you appear to miss is that if the person was learning from a revered nautical tome, properly bound and with some Admirals name on it you would probably compliment the learner. Wouldn't you?

But the same learner using the latest up-to-date techniques from current experienced sailors is wrong just because its in the internet? Is it?

In this weeks "Paddleboard across the Atlantic" I was roundly criticized for saying it was a dumb feat that should not be replicated. However, I do endorse people to grab a proper sailboat and get the hell outta Dodge with limited knowledge.
Look at all those of the nautical book printed on paper who left the USA in the 1970s without being able to use as extant and had to learn on the way. Or die by their inacuracy.

For us to impose 'attitude' on someone takes a deep knowledge of the person, in deed. And it's usually not an objective opinion. Your presumption of someones attitude is likely to be tainted by your prejudices... we all do similar.


Mark
btw: this is the sort of "question" I mean:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...orn-79687.html
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Old 16-03-2017, 07:43   #363
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Legit questions are fine. The ones that say I don't have a pot to piss in or a widow to throw it out of, which $5ooK boat should I buy gets a little old, as an example. Asking which $5K boat would be fine. JMHO
But, why do you let them bother you? Why not just ignore them if they upset you? The day to quit teaching is the day you don't want to answer questions any more.

I think the thing that always results in me leaving this forum for months at a time is seeing people address someone on the internet in a manner that they would never address them in person. Something about the anonymity of the internet seems to often strip away a layer of basic manners.

I won't say it has never happened with me. I know it has. But, I try really hard not to.
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Old 16-03-2017, 08:17   #364
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Two factors:

Their knowledge and experience.

Their boat.
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Old 16-03-2017, 08:40   #365
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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btw: this is the sort of "question" I mean:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...orn-79687.html
So if you look at that thread you see that within 7 responses the OP had really good info to go and search more carefully to make sure he/she weren't missing anything. When you read the nautical tomes, that you seem to like, you are often getting a very well reasoned and researched view from just one person. When you throw a question to a forum you often get less reasoned and less well researched views from many people. It is the person reading the threads responsibility to take the views and consolidate them into their own opinion just as if they were to read a book or two about the topic. I am not completely convinced that one is clearly preferable to the other. These type of threads often lead people to the right books as well.
As much as I respect Jimmy Cornell and Van Sant, their views of different cruising routes aren't the end of the discussion but should be the beginning of one. Same can be said about the writings of Calder and others. The forums are the extension of that conversation.
Just because the OP didn't list all the things that informed his/her opinion to date doesn't mean they don't have these sources. This is the reason I also go back and forth about whether I like the open ended questions like the one mentioned or the more detailed ones that make the OP sound more knowledgable but often close off the discussion in some directions. The reason I feel this way is that I very seldom view the thread as a personal conversation with the OP as you seem to allude here. I view a thread like the one you linked as a bit of knowledge available to search engines everywhere and the more open and available it is to peoples comments the more it is useful in the future. Every one who reads the thread has a different background and knowledge base. Some of the open ended threads seem to be overall more useful then the narrow ones that just answer a particular question.

Just my 2 cents.

Jim
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Old 16-03-2017, 08:46   #366
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Two factors:

Their knowledge and experience.

Their boat.
Thats 3 things
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Old 16-03-2017, 08:48   #367
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Very true Mark.

Hey, are you still cruising the world?

Boy do I envy your lifestyle.
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Old 16-03-2017, 09:07   #368
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Imho:

There are two things about "attitude". One is if you do not like my attitude, simply click the disregard button (mentally or literally). Another thing is report my post to the admin.

It is too bad when all one brings is the attitude, but a social forum without attitudes would be a very boring place. Attitudes add flavour to otherwise plain and boring plates like "should I stay or should I go" and "how much does cruising life cost", etc.

A social media forum like CF is an 'agora' - kind of a Hyde Park where anyone can talk. And no one should be ever calmed down on such a forum on the basis of being: a green horn (a rookie), all hands-on (as opposed to all-Bowditch) or an 'armchair' (as opposed to balls all grown up with sargasso and barnacles). For a worthy piece of information and good advice can come from any source. Being an old salt makes one complacent, not wise. Being a rookie makes one sharp, not stupid.

So. I like attitudes. When there is too much attitude I ask the admins to step in and re-read the offending (in my eyes) post with their own and very native eyes. Who knows, maybe what is attitude to me, is wit and shrewd sense of humour to someone else.

Take care, girls. Sail more, post more, judge less.

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Old 16-03-2017, 15:41   #369
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Imho:

There are two things about "attitude". One is if you do not like my attitude, simply click the disregard button (mentally or literally). Another thing is report my post to the admin.

It is too bad when all one brings is the attitude, but a social forum without attitudes would be a very boring place. Attitudes add flavour to otherwise plain and boring plates like "should I stay or should I go" and "how much does cruising life cost", etc.

A social media forum like CF is an 'agora' - kind of a Hyde Park where anyone can talk. And no one should be ever calmed down on such a forum on the basis of being: a green horn (a rookie), all hands-on (as opposed to all-Bowditch) or an 'armchair' (as opposed to balls all grown up with sargasso and barnacles). For a worthy piece of information and good advice can come from any source. Being an old salt makes one complacent, not wise. Being a rookie makes one sharp, not stupid.

So. I like attitudes. When there is too much attitude I ask the admins to step in and re-read the offending (in my eyes) post with their own and very native eyes. Who knows, maybe what is attitude to me, is wit and shrewd sense of humour to someone else.

Take care, girls. Sail more, post more, judge less.

Love,
b.
Barnikel, I like this post. The crotchety posters amuse me as often as they educate me. This forum or any other would be very boring indeed if I agreed with, or was validated by, every post.
As they say "put on your big girl panties" when you peruse the net. Most of us are near adults aren't we?
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Old 16-03-2017, 16:06   #370
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Legit questions are fine. The ones that say I don't have a pot to piss in or a widow to throw it out of, which $5ooK boat should I buy gets a little old, as an example. Asking which $5K boat would be fine. JMHO

What exactly is the issue with someone seeking advise on a $500k vessel

Why is a $5k vessel fine?

Unless I miss your smile
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Old 16-03-2017, 16:16   #371
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

I think we all pretty much go thru the same stages in our sailing life.

First as Newbies, we are full of romantic enthusiasm and curiosity, determined to learn what is needed, yet overwhelmed a bit by all the differing opinions and attitudes we hear that are often overly steeped in nautical fokelore and hard bound traditions

With our toes slightly wet, we decide to trust our instincts and common sense more, still listening to advice but more often than not, letting our growing confidence and desires dictate the decisions.

Eventually, we make mistakes! Big and Small! .....and with our toes and confidence now properly bruised, we become more conservative and selective on the decisions we make and the advice we take.

Many years later, on forums like these, we share our experiences with others , trying our best to be reasonable.....but once in a while....a scenario is described that touches off a bad or frightening memory or significant screwup in our personal sailing experience.... and we are less than diplomatic in our response.

Crotchety or just human....you decide!
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Old 16-03-2017, 16:48   #372
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Hip, hip, hooray, for curmudgeonly! ....But, I think one can be curmudgeonly and polite at the same time, sometimes it's a challenge!

Ann
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Old 16-03-2017, 17:01   #373
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Hip, hip, hooray, for curmudgeonly! ....But, I think one can be curmudgeonly and polite at the same time, sometimes it's a challenge!
Right on Its the sweet spot I aspire to, and why I appreciate you and Jim (and a few others) so much.
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Old 17-03-2017, 06:34   #374
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Well, what would be an example of a properly worded question that wouldn't set you off?



Part of my job was training people under me in the skills I already had and I soon learned that one size does not fit all when it comes to imparting knowledge. I heard a lot of different people asking a lot of different questions a lot of different ways. You berate one student and all of a sudden, no one one has any questions. That is not classified as a success.



Asking questions is an important part of how teaching works. If that is something you can't handle, that is fine. But, do everyone a favor and just lurk. Don't be stealing people's sunshine. We need more people boating.


Spot on [emoji1303]. Good words
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Old 16-05-2017, 03:50   #375
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

"We need more people boating."

no way! too f...g many already!!!
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