Well, Key West is a dump... moving on

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Housing can be pretty cheap in my area. It has been reported that 20% of people in SC live in trailers. There are expensive areas of course but plenty of inexpensive housing. And of course, there are rooming houses and sharing an apartment or home.

I think some young people expect to start at the top with a nice home and a nice car. It doesn't work that way so they don't try.

I agree about the expectations. But I recall when I was out of college I still could not afford my own place and had to have roomates for a while until I started making better salary/income, which took a while. But what a 40-50 year old with a bad divorce, unneeded now education and a mountain of debt which btw prevents him from being accepted into a more traditional rental community, to do? I think liveaboards, other than a stuck cruiser, are there precisely as a result of being priced out of the landed housing market and their current skills and other related issues prevent them from hustling for a better housing situation. Or they just plain don't want to slave 24/7 to pay the bank or the landlord when they can relax and chill on their own little vessel.

IMO this is precisely what drives this debate of getting liveaboards and anchored boats out of sight - the contempt of the waterfront owners for people who have as good of a view and ambience for a 1/1000th fraction of the cost. This is class envy in reverse.

[FlightPlan]

I stop in KW going and coming back from the Bahamas. Good place to stock up on beer and parts. Great marine hardware store close to the marinas. I generally take a slip at Galleon and get put out on the end slips due to my size. I will sit on deck in the early morning and watch the parade of dinghies cruise by with their dogs and tools, going to work from the moorings. It is quite a menagerie of innovation and clever deception to blend into the culture of free spirited living. It might surprise you that they are really just trying to stay off the radar by keeping things unattractive with the purpose of "why would you want to steal from that boat?"


The cruise ships are the resource for KW and without them, it would be a ghost town. We cruisers cannot support the economy because most of us are DIY types and pinch every penny.


Everything has its extremes, the highest high and lowest low. What I find unique in KW after talking with a LOT of bartenders and waitresses, is they do have a order and police themselves effectively to deter the riff raff as much as possible. They run off the problem people for the most part. All tourist areas have their panhandlers and such. The cruise ships generally have to leave by 5 PM, (city ordinance I think) so the sunset is not destroyed for the overnighters. Then a whole new set of entertainers and vendors show up. I love the music and if you haven't heard Caffeine Carl playing the guitar, you missed one of the best evening entertainers.


I usually can't make it till midnight, but I don't think any place is just real safe after midnight.

[soverel]

Just dont try to anchor too close to boats there and if rammed..bumped..etc..dont start firing flares.

Sent from my HUAWEI-M931 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by accomplice

To each, his own. For me, KW is the only place that is tolerable in S. Florida -- I'm not into chain restaurants and strip malls. Last time I was there 14 months ago -- not on a boat -- it still had a great vibe, excellent restaurants, and interesting architecture and gardens.

My mother and her boyfriend visited our boat when it was down in St. Marten this winter. He had never been out of the US before. He was struck by what he called poverty -- others of us who had travelled a lot didn't see it as poor at all. It depends on what you're used to and what your tastes are.

I would hope that here amongst part-time, full-time and wannabe cruisers there would be more acceptance for life paths off the straight and narrow.

au contraire! there are plenty of chain restaurants and strip malls in Key West

[sailorboy1]

The real question is: does KW have low quality cheap bars that have 2 for 1 happy hour drinks (like most of of FL)? You know, the places with the low life locals go to drink. Because once I pay for a monthly mooring I'm a "local".

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by georgetheleo

au contraire! there are plenty of chain restaurants and strip malls in Key West

yes, but they didn't seem as ubiquitous as elsewhere in FL. perhaps it was simply the part of KW where I was...

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Many years ago, these mentally ill people were placed in institutions and cared for. Apparently, that was against their civil rights so now they are just left to themselves to find food and shelter.

Most of the jobless and homeless are this way of their own choosing. They choose drugs over food and shelter, they are too lazy to take a job and show up every day, they have chosen hair styles and tattoos that offend prospective employers and they failed to take advantage of the free public education made available to them by the government.

Once people put themselves into this lifestyle, it's rare that they turn around and become productive citizens.

What utter nonsense.

The late and unfortunately "esteemed" President Regan, the union-buster and all around thief and liar (Iran Contra come to mind???), pulled the funding for those very mental institutions and essentially kicked sick people out on to the street.

Sure, some may "choose" live like hobos, always have, but the society this bunch of greedy folks left us is far worse after eight years of their austerity and defunding.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

What utter nonsense.

The late and unfortunately "esteemed" President Regan, the union-buster and all around thief and liar (Iran Contra come to mind???), pulled the funding for those very mental institutions and essentially kicked sick people out on to the street.

Sure, some may "choose" live like hobos, always have, but the society this bunch of greedy folks left us is far worse after eight years of their austerity and defunding.

You have no idea what you are talking about and you're just looking for an excuse for a liberal rant. Cut the BS and pay attention.

People were turned out of mental institutions way before President Reagan (you can't even spell his name right) was elected.

The excuse was, they committed no crime so they should not be locked up. Understandable, but they were safe and fed and clothed while institutionalized. It had nothing to do with one political party or another.

[brownoarsman]

Just reached boot key from key west. I'm convinced after two hours here that the best way to see key west by boat is to moor in boot key, and then take the trolley down to key west, spend all day sight seeing and all night drinking, and catch the morning trolley back. Key west done in a day.
In my three days at anchor in KW and four days on a mooring ball, I got soaked multiple times, got little done due to the long dinghy ride and walks to anything important, got soaked often, and had my inflatable holed by one of the locals with a 30 hp outboard and a jon boat. Not worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[DeepFrz]

The late and unfortunately "esteemed" President Regan, the union-buster and all around thief and liar (Iran Contra come to mind???), pulled the funding for those very mental institutions and essentially kicked sick people out on to the street.

Unfortunately it didn't stop with him. His "trickle down" economic system has been an utter failure but the mistakes he made have never been corrected. The assault on our personal freedoms has continued unabated since then and the economic disparity has skyrocketed. Help for the mentally challenged has been slashed as has help for the financially challenged. People don't live under bridges or in their cars because they love the surroundings, the view and the ambiance. Just take an honest look around you and at the world in general and ask yourself if the world is really a better place than it was 40 yrs. ago. End of my rant.

[sailorboy1]

rants not related to Key West

[brownoarsman]

I'm reporting this to the Mods!!! Just kidding


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Unfortunately it didn't stop with him. His "trickle down" economic system has been an utter failure but the mistakes he made have never been corrected. The assault on our personal freedoms has continued unabated since then and the economic disparity has skyrocketed. Help for the mentally challenged has been slashed as has help for the financially challenged. People don't live under bridges or in their cars because they love the surroundings, the view and the ambiance. Just take an honest look around you and at the world in general and ask yourself if the world is really a better place than it was 40 yrs. ago. End of my rant.

Thanks for the big picture, too.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Unfortunately it didn't stop with him. His "trickle down" economic system has been an utter failure but the mistakes he made have never been corrected. The assault on our personal freedoms has continued unabated since then and the economic disparity has skyrocketed. Help for the mentally challenged has been slashed as has help for the financially challenged. People don't live under bridges or in their cars because they love the surroundings, the view and the ambiance. Just take an honest look around you and at the world in general and ask yourself if the world is really a better place than it was 40 yrs. ago. End of my rant.

Those who parrot the mantra of "economic greatness of Reagan policies" are probably the ones who benefitted the most from the gutting of America's middle and lower classes.

And it is related to Kew West as it describes the reason for the existence of the underclass we all see there. It's like discussing good seamnship without wanting to discuss the rocks or other hazards which test the same good seamanship.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Thanks for the big picture, too.