Up above the sunny skies in south California

[JD-MDR]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

(That 80 nm jaunt from San Diego to the Channel Islands is within my abilities and desires, but that's it. Eric Aanderaa and Juan Manuel Ballestero wept; so be it)

Only 22 mi from the marina at Cabrillo. Inside passage is definately a bucket list trip but too wet and cold for me. I've made the trip many times on fishing boats enroute to Kodiak

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Thomm,

I apologize that I did not make clear that I was asking about sailing and maintaining a boat.

My OP said nothing about the politics of the place I inhabit. I don't come here to discuss politics and covid. I always appreciate your insights about sailing.

Please don't take offense.

Best wishes,

df

Not taking offense, was just was responding to your boy Abe's post.

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds View Post
Lived here all my life and looking to get out of here ASAP. Love the weather and sailing to the Channel Islands is wonderful... but the politics and what they have done to our state during the Covid lockdown is unforgiveable.
Can not go out to restaurants, get a haircut, they closed our beaches down, people got arrested and fined if you were out. It will happen again ...it is not over.

Best of Luck...

Abe

I'm sure though the mod's are enjoying the help from the posters like you telling the rest of us what we can and cannot post.

Btw, if you want the best sailing move to a place along the Chesapeake Bay.

You can't beat it for a great sailing area.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by thomm225

[/B]
I'm sure though the mod's are enjoying the help from the posters like you telling the rest of us what we can and cannot post.
.

Thomm, it was intended a politely worded request, not "telling the rest of us what we can and cannot post." Nor was it intended to single you out.

You are right, of course! DMF-sailing is not the boss of what you or anyone else can and cannot say, never wanted to be, and never will be. Let freedom ring!

However, again, I apologize for not having made clear in the OP that I was interested in sailing points only. In future OPs I will put my polite requests in there.

Also, I won't go anywhere until the pandemic is over.

And thanks on the Chesapeake. I have thought about that as well. Still warmer than here, and lots of places to go. And crabs are at least as good as lobsters.

[alaskanviking]

I left San Diego Feb 2020. The weather is nice, summer all the time is good, but you do miss the the other seasons after a while. Really makes the months and time blend together. Cost of living is ridiculous. Poverty level is no joke $70k a year. All the civilian friends and acquaintances work 1-2 jobs, and so does Thier spouses.

I lived there from 2004 to 2020. Every year got worse. I always thought I had a major issue as I make decent money and was just making due. Gas is expensive and even a day trip to the fair or Balboa park, boat show ect is a minimum of $100 a day for parking tickets, maybe food.

If you have a boat, life is difficult. Most of the boatyards specifically cater to super yachts, high end race boats (sail), or party fishing boats. Regular boaters haul out fast, do the bare min, and get it back in the water. Several of the boat yards play games with fees. If you have major repairs or work your spending money and signing over your first born. I see a lot of boats slowly decay/degrade over the years. If you buy there have them haul out and check the bottom, a lot of boats stretch that out to 3 or more years. New calissafe antifouling isn't very good. My 42' was $900 to haul out. Prices for boat stuff is close to double locally. I ordered online as much as I could but as soon as you need something now to finish something, they get you. slips are not easy to get $10-13 a foot or more for slip fees. I seen some that are in the $19 - $25 years harbor Island off sandiego bay/by airport.

Sailing wise it's a light wind area 10-12 knots most of the time. Bay gets crowded on occasions wind gets in 15-20 range, that's when the bigger boats get out. There's the Coronados islands off the coast, that were fun 10 years ago to anchor off scar anchorage. Only real day/overnight thing "cruising" thing to do. San Clemente is 60 miles, and Catalina Island is 80 miles. Pretty much a 3 or 4 day weekend think for the working folk. A few festivals, parade of lights in December and a days of sail/star of India festival. Mission bay has a small anchorage for bigger boats, but the bridges keep you from doing more than that there. Mostly it's we'd night beer can races, and not much for bon racers. A lot of dock condos. Mexico is close, the annual bahaha is probably the biggest cruising thing, followed by Newport to ensenada race (an excuse to go to Mexico) neither is do-able by working folks. Mexico has gotten really sketchy. Military hasn't been allowed for a long time without waivers by first admiral in COC, which isn't likely to happen. I think 2008 was last time I went to rosorito, and ~2010-2012 ish was last time I went to Coronado's in my own boat. Border economy has suffered once passport's were required and military couldn't go. Even Mexican coast guard had corruption issues were they were attempting to confiscate boats to sell for small infractions (4-5 years ago-ish). I went to islands on a party fishing boat for a day fishing 2019 maybe, they don't mess with those really. Would have possibly went down to Mexican boat yards if I had retired from service out of San Diego, however those yards were bought by one of the San Diego boat yards so prices went up a lot. Still better than San Diego, but not the deal it once was.

Now I'm in Virginia. I took a ~$1200-1500 paycut but cost of living is so low I am doing vastly better. gas is cheap and lasts longer per tank. I can actually afford to drive my suburban. Weather hasn't been that bad, I like having seasons. West marine is the same double/triple price as what you can get anywhere else, so no change there. Fast food is also about the same, groceries seem cheaper. Haven't been to any other chanderies here yet. Haven't been on the water yet but Chesapeake is right here. Will take longer to get to Atlantic but not horrible. Lots of places to drop the hook and explore. Far more to do and see on the east coast boatwise I'm finding.

Very happy I was able to escape California. It's cheaper to retire out of Virginia and go anywhere than retire even s couple states over from California. Was thinking about Washington before. Cost $12800 to trick my boat here. I would think about going back for a job over $120k, not worth it for less, especially with a boat. Cost of living is just to high, regulations too much a pain. Anywhere else I could be comfortable with 40-70k depending on the area, if I did my math right. For warm weather and boating, Better off in Carolina's, Georgia or Florida I think, at least you can cruise to Caribbean. Hope this helps.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by alaskanviking

I left San Diego Feb 2020. The weather is nice, summer all the time is good, but you do miss the the other seasons after a while. Really makes the months and time blend together. Cost of living is ridiculous. Poverty level is no joke $70k a year. All the civilian friends and acquaintances work 1-2 jobs, and so does Thier spouses.

I lived there from 2004 to 2020. Every year got worse. I always thought I had a major issue as I make decent money and was just making due. Gas is expensive and even a day trip to the fair or Balboa park, boat show ect is a minimum of $100 a day for parking tickets, maybe food.

If you have a boat, life is difficult. Most of the boatyards specifically cater to super yachts, high end race boats (sail), or party fishing boats. Regular boaters haul out fast, do the bare min, and get it back in the water. Several of the boat yards play games with fees. If you have major repairs or work your spending money and signing over your first born. I see a lot of boats slowly decay/degrade over the years. If you buy there have them haul out and check the bottom, a lot of boats stretch that out to 3 or more years. New calissafe antifouling isn't very good. My 42' was $900 to haul out. Prices for boat stuff is close to double locally. I ordered online as much as I could but as soon as you need something now to finish something, they get you. slips are not easy to get $10-13 a foot or more for slip fees. I seen some that are in the $19 - $25 years harbor Island off sandiego bay/by airport.

Sailing wise it's a light wind area 10-12 knots most of the time. Bay gets crowded on occasions wind gets in 15-20 range, that's when the bigger boats get out. There's the Coronados islands off the coast, that were fun 10 years ago to anchor off scar anchorage. Only real day/overnight thing "cruising" thing to do. San Clemente is 60 miles, and Catalina Island is 80 miles. Pretty much a 3 or 4 day weekend think for the working folk. A few festivals, parade of lights in December and a days of sail/star of India festival. Mission bay has a small anchorage for bigger boats, but the bridges keep you from doing more than that there. Mostly it's we'd night beer can races, and not much for bon racers. A lot of dock condos. Mexico is close, the annual bahaha is probably the biggest cruising thing, followed by Newport to ensenada race (an excuse to go to Mexico) neither is do-able by working folks. Mexico has gotten really sketchy. Military hasn't been allowed for a long time without waivers by first admiral in COC, which isn't likely to happen. I think 2008 was last time I went to rosorito, and ~2010-2012 ish was last time I went to Coronado's in my own boat. Border economy has suffered once passport's were required and military couldn't go. Even Mexican coast guard had corruption issues were they were attempting to confiscate boats to sell for small infractions (4-5 years ago-ish). I went to islands on a party fishing boat for a day fishing 2019 maybe, they don't mess with those really. Would have possibly went down to Mexican boat yards if I had retired from service out of San Diego, however those yards were bought by one of the San Diego boat yards so prices went up a lot. Still better than San Diego, but not the deal it once was.

Now I'm in Virginia. I took a ~$1200-1500 paycut but cost of living is so low I am doing vastly better. gas is cheap and lasts longer per tank. I can actually afford to drive my suburban. Weather hasn't been that bad, I like having seasons. West marine is the same double/triple price as what you can get anywhere else, so no change there. Fast food is also about the same, groceries seem cheaper. Haven't been to any other chanderies here yet. Haven't been on the water yet but Chesapeake is right here. Will take longer to get to Atlantic but not horrible. Lots of places to drop the hook and explore. Far more to do and see on the east coast boatwise I'm finding.

Very happy I was able to escape California. It's cheaper to retire out of Virginia and go anywhere than retire even s couple states over from California. Was thinking about Washington before. Cost $12800 to trick my boat here. I would think about going back for a job over $120k, not worth it for less, especially with a boat. Cost of living is just to high, regulations too much a pain. Anywhere else I could be comfortable with 40-70k depending on the area, if I did my math right. For warm weather and boating, Better off in Carolina's, Georgia or Florida I think, at least you can cruise to Caribbean. Hope this helps.

How far up the bay are you?

There are some really nice places to sail all along the Chesapeake. Mobjack Bay is one of my favorites.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mo...!4d-76.3521514

As a teenager, I'd take my 14' power boat out all the way to Tangier island and fish usually coming out of Onancock or Chesconessex

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ta...!4d-75.9928952

it was quite nice......as long as the engine was running well......

[alaskanviking]

I know you don't want to talk politics, however realistically it is part of any discussion about SoCal and San Diego.

Over the years I seen more and more pay parking. Now you really can't find much you don't pay for. Even public parks have started to get pay meters. thinks it's a very liberal state but only socially, the politicians are very conservative and pro business over people.

There in lies the problem for boaters. Every bit of the coastline has been bought up. It's condos and resorts mostly. Services like boat yards have dwindled, and Thier foot print has been chipped away so they are limited on space. Regulations have increased so un-surprising fees and costs have gone up. Those costs go to boaters and that means the people or organizations that can afford those services increasingly are higher up the financial food chain. Also unsurprisingly they have to advertise and tailor Thier services to attract the mega yachts that can afford them. It's frustrating.

But it's not just boat yards it's everything. Go to earth Day or some festival at Balboa park. Pay parking, they won't let you bring in food or water so you go without or buy there. There isn't a lot there, and tickets get higher and higher every year.

The San Diego Fair, either walk 5-10 miles or pay $20-40 to park. Same deal with food and water.

Animal park or zoo, same deal. Any kind of basic day trip is a minimum of $100. A family with a couple kids your talking some decent cash. I think even cinnamon rolls were $15-20+ last year. Every year it seems there's less and less and things get lamer. Just gets to the point we're it's not worth doing anything.

a good example of this was ~2 years ago. before I deployed I tried to go to the boat show. They have a drawing for free hual out and I knew I needed it when I got back. Military got free tickets for the first 2 days.
1st day I got lucky and my friend let me park at their Marina parking lot up the road. 2-3 mile walk. It's a really small boat show so I seen everything the first day. Bought food and water, was hot that day. on the 2nd day I just needed to drop off the days drawing slip, I parked at the cancer survivor park. Its a 5 mile walk I think. I didn't see the new parking pay station for the public park, $50 ticket. Saturday still irritated from my ticket and I just wanted to run in drop off the slip. $25 parking, $15 show ticket I think. I didn't bother even going Sunday. Just wasn't worth it.

There is a lot of campaigns to get you to buy local. Definitely got an attitude from boat service types and boat yards doing stuff myself or ordering online. Laws and regulations increased every year and I saw a lot of property tax increases or schemes to try to get buy local. There is an anti nice boat culture. They forced out the free anchorage, the two remaining one anchorages were temporary and you had to reserve a permit online well in advance. All the businesses seem to be trying to survive by nickle and diming you for everything, also definitely has increased over the years.

COVID is going to be a part of this equation if your looking into moving. Regardless of how anyone thinks California and so Cal did, the end result are those businesses are hungry, Tourism wasn't good, and cost of living hasn't gone down. This will only increase the amount of businesses and people leaving the area and state. That means thier customer base will shrink and businesses will get more aggressive and do more nickle and dime stuff. It's a matter of survival really. That means houses and specifically boats will get less and less attention, in an area without a lot of boat slips or services. People can only afford so much, before you get a lot of deralect boats.

Before I left last year there were more and more people living out of RVs, vans, and cars. Started seeing old run down RVs every where. They were passing laws to prevent them from parking on public streets and other similar measures. Only going to be worse post covid

Outside of the biotech and military support businesses, I can't see the San Diego economy being very sustainable in the near future and things will get tough. I don't know about LA, but many of the same elements are there.

It's all just sad, and frustrating

[alaskanviking]

Originally Posted by thomm225

How far up the bay are you?

There are some really nice places to sail all along the Chesapeake. Mobjack Bay is one of my favorites.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mo...!4d-76.3521514

As a teenager, I'd take my 14' power boat out all the way to Tangier island and fish usually coming out of Onancock or Chesconessex

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ta...!4d-75.9928952

it was quite nice......as long as the engine was running well......

I'm in between Norfolk and Virginia beach. Haven't really gotten out yet to go explore. Looking at deltaville. Tons of boat places looks like.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by alaskanviking

I left San Diego Feb 2020. The weather is nice, summer all the time is good, but you do miss the the other seasons after a while. Really makes the months and time blend together. Cost of living is ridiculous. Poverty level is no joke $70k a year. All the civilian friends and acquaintances work 1-2 jobs, and so does Thier spouses.

I lived there from 2004 to 2020. Every year got worse. I always thought I had a major issue as I make decent money and was just making due. Gas is expensive and even a day trip to the fair or Balboa park, boat show ect is a minimum of $100 a day for parking tickets, maybe food.

If you have a boat, life is difficult. Most of the boatyards specifically cater to super yachts, high end race boats (sail), or party fishing boats. Regular boaters haul out fast, do the bare min, and get it back in the water. Several of the boat yards play games with fees. If you have major repairs or work your spending money and signing over your first born. I see a lot of boats slowly decay/degrade over the years. If you buy there have them haul out and check the bottom, a lot of boats stretch that out to 3 or more years. New calissafe antifouling isn't very good. My 42' was $900 to haul out. Prices for boat stuff is close to double locally. I ordered online as much as I could but as soon as you need something now to finish something, they get you. slips are not easy to get $10-13 a foot or more for slip fees. I seen some that are in the $19 - $25 years harbor Island off sandiego bay/by airport.

Sailing wise it's a light wind area 10-12 knots most of the time. Bay gets crowded on occasions wind gets in 15-20 range, that's when the bigger boats get out. There's the Coronados islands off the coast, that were fun 10 years ago to anchor off scar anchorage. Only real day/overnight thing "cruising" thing to do. San Clemente is 60 miles, and Catalina Island is 80 miles. Pretty much a 3 or 4 day weekend think for the working folk. A few festivals, parade of lights in December and a days of sail/star of India festival. Mission bay has a small anchorage for bigger boats, but the bridges keep you from doing more than that there. Mostly it's we'd night beer can races, and not much for bon racers. A lot of dock condos. Mexico is close, the annual bahaha is probably the biggest cruising thing, followed by Newport to ensenada race (an excuse to go to Mexico) neither is do-able by working folks. Mexico has gotten really sketchy. Military hasn't been allowed for a long time without waivers by first admiral in COC, which isn't likely to happen. I think 2008 was last time I went to rosorito, and ~2010-2012 ish was last time I went to Coronado's in my own boat. Border economy has suffered once passport's were required and military couldn't go. Even Mexican coast guard had corruption issues were they were attempting to confiscate boats to sell for small infractions (4-5 years ago-ish). I went to islands on a party fishing boat for a day fishing 2019 maybe, they don't mess with those really. Would have possibly went down to Mexican boat yards if I had retired from service out of San Diego, however those yards were bought by one of the San Diego boat yards so prices went up a lot. Still better than San Diego, but not the deal it once was.

Now I'm in Virginia. I took a ~$1200-1500 paycut but cost of living is so low I am doing vastly better. gas is cheap and lasts longer per tank. I can actually afford to drive my suburban. Weather hasn't been that bad, I like having seasons. West marine is the same double/triple price as what you can get anywhere else, so no change there. Fast food is also about the same, groceries seem cheaper. Haven't been to any other chanderies here yet. Haven't been on the water yet but Chesapeake is right here. Will take longer to get to Atlantic but not horrible. Lots of places to drop the hook and explore. Far more to do and see on the east coast boatwise I'm finding.

Very happy I was able to escape California. It's cheaper to retire out of Virginia and go anywhere than retire even s couple states over from California. Was thinking about Washington before. Cost $12800 to trick my boat here. I would think about going back for a job over $120k, not worth it for less, especially with a boat. Cost of living is just to high, regulations too much a pain. Anywhere else I could be comfortable with 40-70k depending on the area, if I did my math right. For warm weather and boating, Better off in Carolina's, Georgia or Florida I think, at least you can cruise to Caribbean. Hope this helps.

Wow, that is a hall of fame response. Thank you so much. With you and Thomm and one other that's the third Chesapeake/Virginia voe.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

Lived here all my life and looking to get out of here ASAP. Love the weather and sailing to the Channel Islands is wonderful... but the politics and what they have done to our state during the Covid lockdown is unforgiveable.
Can not go out to restaurants, get a haircut, they closed our beaches down, people got arrested and fined if you were out. It will happen again ...it is not over.
The state is going bankrupt....and homeless is out of control. I am serious, it is not a joke. It is so bad we are even recalling the governor!

Best of Luck...

Abe

Move to Mississippi.

[Calif.Ted]

When I suggested a nearby new restaurant to a friend he replied "That place is no good anymore, it's always crowded and you have to wait for a table".
Expensive housing, lots of cars on the freeways, slips waitlisted, yeah, that place is no good anymore, everybody wants to live there.
January 15, 2021 below, what were you doing that day ?

[JD-MDR]

Yay Ted, We will figure it out and solve these issues.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by alaskanviking

I'm in between Norfolk and Virginia beach. Haven't really gotten out yet to go explore. Looking at deltaville. Tons of boat places looks like.

Are you looking at Deltaville to buy a boat or dock your boat?

Deltaville is sort of out in the boonies so they have good rates for boat storage,

This place sells boats, has a marina, and a boatyard for work and storage.

https://dycboat.com/#

In town, Bay Point is one of the 3-4 marinas on Little Creek.

It was recently refurbished with new docks, new pool, new bathrooms, etc but with not a lot of parking.

https://baypointmarinanorfolk.com/

[Jim Cate]

East vs West coast location for a sailor: East coast has far more cruising destinations than does the West, and that is surely a selling point. And then you haul your boat out for the "off season" and spend hours on CF complaining that you miss sailing.

West coast, especially the SF area... few cruising destinations, but outstanding sailing conditions... and no one hauls for the winter. In fact, winter sailing on SF Bay is great.

Another advantage of the West is that Mexico is an easy sail away, and the Sea of Cortez is a good cruising ground... and a good exit point for the South Pacific. The SP was my ultimate goal as a cruiser, and it has been all that I anticipated.

Jim

Jim

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

East vs West coast location for a sailor: East coast has far more cruising destinations than does the West, and that is surely a selling point. And then you haul your boat out for the "off season" and spend hours on CF complaining that you miss sailing.

West coast, especially the SF area... few cruising destinations, but outstanding sailing conditions... and no one hauls for the winter. In fact, winter sailing on SF Bay is great.

Another advantage of the West is that Mexico is an easy sail away, and the Sea of Cortez is a good cruising ground... and a good exit point for the South Pacific. The SP was my ultimate goal as a cruiser, and it has been all that I anticipated.

Jim

Jim

Well Jim, Jim,

Not exactly.

I think in the Northeast they haul their boats but here along the lower Chesapeake, we do not.

The cold also does something nice which is that it makes Spring, Summer, and most of Fall seem very, very special.

I've lived in Florida and know the deal of a 2 week Winter when temps actually get down in the 40's.! The rest of the year is very similar day after day until it gets to be sizzling hot in Summer.

We have had temps in the 70's most of the week, and it has been nice and a real reminder that Spring is just about here.

I put the dodger back on my boat last week!

Winter is a nice thing to recalibrate oneself each year.

Late Fall is nice as well.

Picture is of the road into the Farm. (Old family farm)

Tom

[Jim Cate]

Not exactly.

I think in the Northeast they haul their boats but here along the lower Chesapeake, we do not.

Well Thomm, there are frequent posts here whining about not being able to sail, and some of them come from various points on the East coast of the USA. You, as often is the case, may be different, but those other folks sure sound like that wish they were somewhere warmer, and where the water was still in liquid phase.

And your preference for having a cold winter is fine for you. I hate being cold, and I defend my right to do so. Your argument about winter making spring "special" is like how nice it is when you stop banging your head on a brick wall. Does not work for me.

But really, I was simply pointing out one of the differences between the two coasts... which was sorta the gist of the thread.

Jim