Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup

[De.windhoos]

Originally Posted by foothillsailor

FWIW here is how I would TRY and med-moor in those conditions.

For explanation purposes I will assume:
a. mooring buoy to the west,
b. wind from the NW,
c. seawall/dock lies to the east and runs North-South
d. enough room along the seawall at least as long as my boat
e. no current.

Here is what I would try and do:
1. approach mooring buoy from SE,
2. attach a LONG mooring line to buoy running the line thru port bow cleat and then back to port cockpit winch, taking a couple of wraps on winch but leaving it loose so that the line can pay out as I proceed;
3. under power, head NNE so that after allowing for drift my boat travels NE, paying out the bow mooring line as you go;
4 At the right time when close to the seawall (this is where it gets tricky!), snub up your bow line and ease off your power so as to stop your forward motion but maintaining your position
5. at that point the bow SHOULD start to pivot to the NW on the snubbed port bow mooring line thus swinging your stern to starboard close to the seawall or if not quite close enough reduce power so that the boat drifts backwards and down while still pivoting on the bow snubbed mooring line
6. PRAY that you've judged the distance right (along with how quickly the boat does/doesn't pivot and your rate of drift)
7. at that point your boat should be pointed roughly NW into the wind, your power should be just enough to maintain your position with your stern near the seawall,
8. lasso or throw the starboard stern dock line around a seawall dock or cleat and tie it off
8. while maintaining slight power ahead so as to have boat now pivoting on your stern line so as to keep the bow facing NW into the wind, winch in the bow mooring line as fast as possible
9. secure bow mooring line, cut power, attach port stern line to dock/seawall
10. have a strong drink because if it worked without a screw-up then you've performed a minor miracle.

Since I don't have a bow thruster I can't comment on how or if it should be used, but the above method doesn't require a bow thruster and should also minimize the risk of fouling a prop.

Haven't tried the above as I've only had experience of med mooring in a slip or where there wasn't enough room to pivot my boat because of the number of boats packed along the seawall.

In the conditions described, I don't know if I would be brave enough to try it single-handed

Good luck

I do the same, except also pray that the bowline doesn't snag and quickly tie off both stern lines, put the engine in fwd gear, point the helm windward and lock it.
That way the stern can't move too much.

I have to say that picking up a mooring buoy and med mooring must be one of the most complex docking maneuvers there is. Thank god in the med you either use your anchor or pickup a lazy line

Oh I would also have several stiff drinks regardless of the number of screw-ups.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Yeah that's for sure, we hear of boats blowing up all the time near town docks.

Not a week goes by and BOOM! There goes another one.

It's good thing there's never been a war over here in Croatia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Serbia or Italy, otherwise I'd need to watch out for those unexploded bombs.

Ken, this is the one I was thinking of were they use an anchor and get it in a right mess, but on viewing it I don't think this is you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxg30c6z00E

[Deltasailor]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

One reason why I hate it when people make fun of others' mistakes is that I know that under the right circumstances, almost anything can happen to almost anyone, where boats are concerned, and that any one of us could end up being the butt of this kind of derision. Especially, and ironically, those of us who sail a lot, sail in different conditions and locales, and get ourselves into unfamiliar situations.

Well yesterday it was me

I haven't done any Med mooring in probably a decade, and I should have known better.

It was blowing 15 or 20 knots across the dock and somewhat from it. So the wind was blowing me across and away from the dock. I thought -- no problem -- the dock is almost empty and I have plenty of room. I'll take the far windward buoy and I'll sort it out.

I was single handed. And that was why I decided to go in stern-first, Med style, instead of bow-first, Baltic style. I have done a lot of Baltic mooring over the last four years, utterly without drama or problem, BUT -- I always had crew to hand the bow lines down to the dock. I figured that being single handed, it would be easier to get to the stern to throw the dock lines.

What I didn't reckon with -- fatally! -- was that I can't swing my boat when she is attached to something from the bow. I'll never forget this lesson now. When she is attached to a buoy from the stern, the bow thruster is magic. But I have no control over the stern when the bow is attached. Rudder and throttle doesn't do anything.

So in the event, I had no trouble picking up the buoy, despite my high freeboard. I got it, got the line on -- then -- dang it, the line is too short -- the buoy is a good 30 meters from the dock. So I had to go around and do it again. By this time, a crowd had gathered on the dock. Oh, great. I got on a longer line -- an old halyard -- and led it through a bow cleat back to my cockpit winch, and started backing in. So far so good. I had exploited the room I had to approach the buoy going in reverse against the wind, and continued reversing after the line was on. My plan was to get the line adjusted to get me within rope-throwing distance, and then let the wind swing me over to the dock.

Wrong! Of course , the bow blows off, not the stern, and nothing I do can straighten out the boat. I try reverse with right rudder, but as usual -- I know this from experience -- this does not rotate the boat counterclockwise, when the bow is attached to something. By now it's gusting over 20 knots. So we drift past my chosen dock spot, and towards the other boats, which a moment ago looked so far away. I abort, to avoid fouling the bow lines of other boats, and try to maneuver back towards the buoy. In the process, I get my own bow line in my bow thruster , damaging the prop . I go around again, but again the result is the same. Meanwhile the crowd on the dock is getting bigger, and some people are shouting or gesturing with various advice

I abort again. Finally a RIB from the harbor comes out -- something which doesn't exist in the Baltic, but there is some kind of tall ships festival or something going on here -- and pushes my stern over so I can reach the dock. Lines go on with no further drama.

What a fiasco!!

What should I have done differently?

I can't quite figure it out. If it had been a typical Med mooring situation with dozens of boats and a narrow slot between two of them, I would have put a line on a stern cleat of the windward boat, and would have relied on lots of fenders. Once you're between other boats, the wind doesn't affect you as much.

But here? Seems to me maybe I should have gotten the dock line on first, and only THEN tried to pick up the buoy, with due care paid to the risk of getting the line in the prop.

Or what the hell should I have done?

I come away from this with new appreciation for Baltic mooring -- this couldn't have happened. First of all, I can control the swing of the boat, with the stern attached, even without a thruster (and with a thruster, it's child's play). Second, it's much easier to deal with the buoy, keep it in sight, etc., when it's behind you. I did a certain amount of Med mooring years ago, without a bow thruster, and didn't remember it to be so horrendous

Having Med type moored many times in modern fin keel type yachts I can confirm stern too in a crosswind can be a bitch. The only way to get the boat to steer is to get good speed up. Start out of the harbour if necessary and maintain a good lick. That way the rudder has a bite on the water. With a long keel yacht there is no real chance of backing up and stopping the bow from falling off with wind. DON'T DO IT. Go bows too, don't try and make a boat do something it can't do, it'll end in tears.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

.

Forget about those telling you to let out line by hand, they've probably never felt 25 tons of boat tugging against them.

That and much more Ken......what forces are you controlling when easing a Genoa Sheet on our size boats?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Sandibar

Dockhead. A 50+ foot yacht may put helpfull dockside people off here. For me it works to ready the lines at the bow for possible help to grab, but then again i can see the bow and can reach it quite quickly from the cockpit. 35ft/6 tons is easier to manhandle as well .

That is a good point Sandbar, especially if blowing hard with a side wind. Someone may grab it but not be able to control.

Dockhead, I revise my advice to agree with another suggestion.

If alone and conditions are windy, then:
tie your bow line to the mooring buoy, launch tender and take stern line ashore.
Then quietly winch yourself into slip, no fuss, no muss and without depending on strangers.

Admittedly more work, but definitely less stress and you maintain that single handed status with the peanut gallery.

I think one of the biggest mistakes even experienced captains make is to "assume" we can do the same maneuver alone that we often do with just one other crew.

The full time solo sailor does everything slowly and conservatively which is what we should remember if occasionally on our own

[poiu]

Thanks for your candour. Not everyone is happy to admit a screw up, More's the pity.

I've med-moored solo a number of times and it hasn't always gone perfectly, so I sympathise with your frustration. I would certainly have done a drive by first to gauge distances so ropes were not too short, maybe to ask for someone to come on board to handle lines to ask the marina dinghy to help out if there was one.

If possible and permitted I would use the anchor as by far the preferred option. Dump excessive chain, reverse in, attach the windward line, motor off the dock in idle against that line controlling the bow with the thruster, then pull the chain tight, then set the other stern line and pull closer to the dock, finally set the buoy later if the holding was unworkable.

I doubt I would trust a mooring line buoy to hold my boat solidly as suggested by others, they can move a lot. It would also have to be a long way out so a swing kept you off all obstacles.

If couldn't anchor then I would only do it alone if the mooring buoy was so near to the dock so there was little chance of a bowthruster jam, or if there were lazy lines to the buoy it would be ok. Failing that, anchor out, dinghy in and get help.

I've not done this, but if you do this again you could try a polypropylene (floating) line for the buoy. If you also attached it to the leeward cleat then there should be very little chance of getting them snagged in the bowthruster as you will probably be pushing it away from, not into the impellers.

[Palarran]

Nice story Dockhead. What I'm wondering most from your description is how you attached your boat to the mooring bouy before trying to back in, and how did you play out the slack. I don't think I could do this single handed and would be in a real dire need to even try.

Ken, I know you like to stay out on anchor nearly all the time compared to Med mooring. But as some point you must have come into a harbor that uses lazy lines. Almost NO ONE drops anchor in these harbors - you know that. Only big boats whose bows are further out than the line anchors will drop their own anchor. Maybe your travels haven't brought you to harbors that use mooring balls so your not familiar with them. I've used them quite a few times and when they are there, again - NO ONE drops an anchor. In regards to actual "Med" mooring - if you can actually judge the distance to shore, drop 150' of chain in a pile, back up to a quay, pull forward if you don't have enough chain out, then back up again - in a 20 knot side wind - single handed, your probably the best med mooring sailor I've ever seen. It's a totally unusual way of doing it but I guess it works for you. Me - no way.

One last point Ken, try re-reading your responses to this thread and ask yourself if they are in anyway friendly. They don't read that way to me.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Everything is so much easier when there is no wind...except sailing of course!

Wifey B: You sailors are funny. Complain when too much wind and complain when no wind. I don't see why the wind won't cooperate and go away when you're at the dock and blow steady with you when you're sailing, then when you get ready to return it change direction with you too.

[meirriba]

I have never seen a Med mooring where the bow is connected to a buoy.
In the Med, the usual is an a bow anchor and stern lines. It still is not easy but certainly easier than a buoy and stern lines.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Nice story Dockhead. What I'm wondering most from your description is how you attached your boat to the mooring bouy before trying to back in, and how did you play out the slack. I don't think I could do this single handed and would be in a real dire need to even try..
. .

This part of the maneuver was completely free of any problems. I do it the same way when Baltic mooring.

What I always do is rig the line in a loop -- I put a spliced eye on a cleat (bow or stern) then bring it back midships outside of the lifelines.

Then I maneuver the boat to come to a stop with the buoy exactly midships, which is where my freeboard is lowest and easiest to grab the buoy.

I put the end through the loop, then run the line back to the same cleat where the other end is attached. I run this end through the middle of the cleat, making it a fairlead. Then back to a winch, using a midships cleat as another fairlead. And put it on a big electric sheet winch in the cockpit.

Like this I can shorten and lengthen the line from the helm and keep it out of the water, and general out of my prop.

You're on a cat, so all the geometry will be different, but I guess you could do something similar.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

That is a good point Sandbar, especially if blowing hard with a side wind. Someone may grab it but not be able to control.

Dockhead, I revise my advice to agree with another suggestion.

If alone and conditions are windy, then:
tie your bow line to the mooring buoy, launch tender and take stern line ashore.
Then quietly winch yourself into slip, no fuss, no muss and without depending on strangers.

Admittedly more work, but definitely less stress and you maintain that single handed status with the peanut gallery.

I think one of the biggest mistakes even experienced captains make is to "assume" we can do the same maneuver alone that we often do with just one other crew.

The full time solo sailor does everything slowly and conservatively which is what we should remember if occasionally on our own

Thanks; that's great advice.

Using the tender was suggested already by Pete7, and I like it more and more.

In fact, now I'm really kicking myself, because I thought of the Absolute Correct Solution to this -- in my dreams last night.

Use the tender, but not while swinging from the buoy.

COME ALONGSIDE FIRST!

Tie on the stern line, take the dinghy out with a bow line, and winch the bow out! Now why the hell didn't I think of that, given the unique circumstances with enough room to come alongside the quay?


What happened was I just didn't imagine it would be so difficult. I've moored from bow or stern so many times, and never had any drama before this, not once. Not even the first time I did it decades ago. I just couldn't imagine it could turn into such a hash.

This was the first time I've done it with a buoy so far away, and I think this was the key parameter which tripped me up. Obviously it would have been far easier with the anchor, if that had been allowed, holding the bow so much better, but I don't think that would have changed the fundamental problem, which is maneuvering over that kind of distance while being attached by the bow, in a strong cross wind.

It also occurred to me WHY the boat behaved differently, from what I expected. I feel instinctively well how the boat responds to a side wind -- the bow blows off and the boat rotates. Knowing exactly how it will respond allows you to use this effect for your own benefit, which I do all the time. BUT SHE WAS TIED BY THE BOW, so the wind rotated her in the opposite direction, and I couldn't control this. In fact, the only way to get her pointed the right way was to slack off the bow line sufficiently, but then it gets in the bow thruster


All in all, an extremely valuable lesson, and I hope it benefited others besides just me. Probably worth the replacement bow thruster propeller (please God let the drive leg be OK).

Another aspect of this lesson is -- never make fun of others' mistakes. Until two days ago, I could have said (and thank God never said) -- "I've been mooring stern-to and bows-to for 30 years, and never had a single cock-up, never scratched or damaged anything -- I'm a Zen master of this type of mooring." I can't say it now! And probably, we can never say it, about any aspect of this sport!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sandero

WOW... you've got balls Dockhead! I have never attempted a Med or Baltic moor and the only place I saw them practiced was in English Harbor and I believe the Canary Islands (not sure of that).

It seems it's mostly done by large crewed yachts who need to get on on off the boat for all manner of things and anchoring out using the dink is less convenient. Not every boat is suited to boarding a dink... the super big guys have set ups for dink boarding but many of the bigger yacht have high freeboard and it's doable but not comfortable. We use the stern swim ladder and could board the boat from dink without it.

Cross winds make controlling backing down a bitch... single handing means you have a whole lot on your hands... With no other yachts to smash into maybe you could do it. But if you can anchor off and you don't NEED to be on the quay... why even do it? And who wants to be crowded in between other boats? It's like living in a parking lot... same as in a slip in a marina... YUCK.

This might have been a situation to practice a med or baltic moor... and maybe there was no anchorage alternative... But do tell... aside from being cool and doing it... why did you do this moor?

Med mooring and Baltic mooring exists for one simple purpose, and one more subtle one which I only recently began to understand.

The simple purpose is you can tie up a lot more boats tied up perpendicular to the quay, than you can alongside -- it takes up 3.5x less quay space. So in this sense it's a very logical way to do it. In some parts of the Med, like in the Aegean, a lot of the town quays are even free to use, so naturally they are not interested in building a lot of expensive pontoons to make it possible for people to tie up alongside. In the Baltic, I often pay as little as 10 euros a night for a 54' boat including electricity -- so again, I don't blame them at all for providing a cheaper type of mooring which takes up less expensive quay space.

The subtle purpose is that it is easier on the boat -- which doesn't bash against the fenders when there are waves in the harbor. Many of these cheap harbors, some of them hundreds or thousands of years old, aren't all that well protected. I was actually alongside in this same harbor last month (it was empty then, and they let me tie up however I wanted), and I was very unhappy with how the boat was bashing against the quay in certain weather, so I wasn't unhappy to tie up this way.

Lastly -- it's not usually actually all that hard, once you get the hang of it. Usually the buoy is closer to the quay, if you're using a buoy. If you're coming inside a narrow spot between two other boats, as usual, you are home free as soon as you are between the other boats, because everyone is well fendered and you can hand yourself in from there. Plus the wind already doesn't get you when you're behind another boat.

I like anchoring out and often do it instead of going into a harbor, but it was not an option here -- prohibited because of war debris and unexploded munitions. Besides that I will be here for two weeks and want shore power and easy shore access. I'm only paying 13 euros a night.

[jtsailjt]

After 70+ years are there REALLY munitions that haven't rusted to oblivion and their "active ingredients" compromised by salt water intrusion, or sunk so deep into the muck that your anchor couldn't penetrate that deep no matter how hard you pulled on the rode? I have a hard time believing that threat is very real in 2017. But if there's a local ordinance that makes anchoring in this harbor against the rules, does that also include anchoring for just a few minutes as Ken suggested until you can get yourself secured to the buoy? If a power boat were to lose propulsion in this harbor does this prohibition mean they are supposed to just drift onto the rocks or other boats rather than anchoring to prevent damage to themselves or others? If you buoyed your anchor, it should be pretty easy to retrieve it with your dinghy once your yacht is properly secured so your rode wouldn't be a hazard to any other arriving yachts.

It seems that other than Kens method, most of the others require praying, drinking heavily, or attempting to do 3 things at once (difficult for most 2 handed people) or precise timing, etc. I do like the idea of securing the bow to the buoy and taking a line ashore in the dinghy and then cranking yourself into position as you slowly fed out the line to the buoy. I suppose the feasibility of doing that would depend on how close the buoy was to other yachts to ensure you had swinging room while you were away from your boat in your dinghy though.

But how about the reverse approach? In his original post, the OP said the dock was almost empty, so if there was room to first come alongside, then dinghy a line from the bow out and secure it to the buoy. Then return to your yacht, keep your stern line secured to the dock (with some slack so as your boat rotates outward your stern isn't forced into the dock/wall) but release the bow line from the dock, and with the line to the buoy now fed through your bow roller and wrapped around your windlass, use it (and your bow thruster if necessary) to swing your bow out away from the dock and into it's proper position. This method would only be feasible in the situation the OP described where the dock was not heavily populated because he'd temporarily need a bit more than the length of his yacht available for his initial approach alongside. But it would be easily done singlehanded with no drama or risk of entangling lines in thrusters or wheels and requires no great feats of helmsmanship or precise timing or great physical strength. I can't say that I've ever been faced with this exact problem while singlehanded so haven't attempted it to see if it's as easy as it seems, but if Kens method using his anchor were ruled out, I think this is what I'd try next, dock space permitting. What do you think?

Edit: Now I've read the last few posts I can see that you DID think of this and beat me to it. I'm glad you had the courage to start this thread because I've learned a lot about what to do and also some "ideas" that fall into the what NOT to do category. Other than the obvious solution of waiting for the wind to die down, I think Ken's is the most viable solution under normal circumstances but if the dock is nearly empty it opens up the possibility we both seem to think would work, first tying up alongside and then proceeding from there.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Use the tender, but not while swinging from the buoy.

COME ALONGSIDE FIRST!

Tie on the stern line, take the dinghy out with a bow line, and winch the bow out! Now why the hell didn't I think of that, given the unique circumstances with enough room to come alongside the quay?

Hmm, the only problem with this is once alongside you are going to turn the boat through 90 degrees presumably with the rear quarter and then the stern touching the quay. I wouldn't be confident single handed in fendering off the quarter and stern whilst winching in the line from the buoy using a cockpit winch.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Ken, I know you like to stay out on anchor nearly all the time compared to Med mooring. But as some point you must have come into a harbor that uses lazy lines. Almost NO ONE drops anchor in these harbors - you know that. Only big boats whose bows are further out than the line anchors will drop their own anchor. Maybe your travels haven't brought you to harbors that use mooring balls so your not familiar with them. I've used them quite a few times and when they are there, again - NO ONE drops an anchor. In regards to actual "Med" mooring - if you can actually judge the distance to shore, drop 150' of chain in a pile, back up to a quay, pull forward if you don't have enough chain out, then back up again - in a 20 knot side wind - single handed, your probably the best med mooring sailor I've ever seen. It's a totally unusual way of doing it but I guess it works for you. Me - no way.

I go in when I need to, like when checking out via customs two days ago in Croatia. Careful planning makes a difference and then dropping my anchor 150ft out where the Big Boys do makes all the difference. The chain laying taught along the bottom and up to the windlass doesn't snag or catch on anything. Not even on unexploded bombs or canisters of mustard gas.

Nothing special about doing this, many thousands of other sailors and powerboats do this same maneuver everyday here in the Med, which is why it's called "Med Mooring." Poke fun or critisize it all you want, but basically, there's only one correct way to do it.

I learn by watching others.... and not by poking fun at them.