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18-07-2017, 06:39
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#16
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
You should have done what I did just a few hours ago when soloing into the customs dock, Med style in Cavtat.
Drop your anchor 150ft feet from the dock and let out 160ft of chain (I don't have a remote so I need to run up to the bow), then back in slowly using very short bursts from your bow thruster to steer until the anchor line is taught. Then attach your stern lines. You may need to go forward and let out more chain like I needed to, but at this point it's easier to estimate. I needed to let out more chain three times and back the boat in three times. NO DRAMA. But a little stressful in the preparation. Then go attach your bow lines if they're still needed.
Solo Med mooring made easy... sort of.
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18-07-2017, 06:44
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#17
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 35,024
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7
Given the space available; tie bow to bouy.
Use dinghy to take stern line to shore.
Return to yacht.
Winch stern in against the wind to the shore.
At no point is there any risk to people or damage. It can all be stopped and thought through, the only downside is the time it takes which things do single handed.
On a similar note on more than one occasion I have had to reverse out of a marina because I couldn't turn the bows through the wind in a tight marina space. But if going out backwards saves bumping into someone elses boat then that is fine by me, also the reason the anchor lives in the anchor locker not as a medieval jousting stick out the front. though appreciate that on larger yachts that just isn't feasible.
Pete
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Now that's a bloody good idea. I hadn't thought of that.
Would require launching the dinghy -- bit of a PITA -- but would have been worth it yesterday -- that's for sure.
Great idea!
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18-07-2017, 06:49
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#18
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 35,024
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
You should have done what I did just a few hours ago when soloing into the customs dock, Med style in Cavtat.
Drop your anchor 150ft feet from the dock and let out 160ft of chain (I don't have a remote so I need to run up to the bow), then back in slowly using your bow thruster to steer until the anchor line is taught. Then attach your stern lines. You may need to go forward and let out more chain like I needed to, but at this point it's easier to estimate. I needed to let out more chain three times and back the boat in three times. NO DRAMA. But a little stressful in the preparation. Then go attach your bow lines if they're still needed.
Solo Med mooring made easy... sort of.
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Well, I'm guessing you didn't have a 20 knots side wind That was the root problem yesterday.
But anyway -- yes, I've done it a lot with the anchor, and it is hugely better that way. One big advantage -- the chain won't get in your thruster. Big advantage #2 -- the weight of the chain, and friction against the bottom, helps a lot keeping you lined up.
Especially good on this boat because I have a helm control for the windlass, so I don't have to go forward to adjust the length.
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18-07-2017, 06:52
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#19
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 35,024
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandibar
Sorry to hear about the problems. When single handling and Baltic mooring, I also prepare and route the bow lines so that someone on the dock can easily grab them and fix them on the dock at least temporarily. Always had help as well.
By the way, that Tall Ships-event you mentioned. It's coming to Turku this weekend and is pretty spectacular, happens every few years. There's 85 ships in all, including a 123m square rigger. All the ships will leave the same time on Sunday and I plan to be there to see it. Here's more info, if you're in the neighbourhood: https://www.tallshipsturku.fi/en
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I won't be in Turku, but I was in Kotka for the event there. I even gave a speech at it It was really interesting.
Interesting to see another vote for leaving bow lines for others to grab. That is now really inspiring.
I've never done any Baltic mooring where someone didn't come to help. It just didn't occur to me that someone might even grab the lines off your boat.
This is a great thread; packing the files with new ideas.
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18-07-2017, 06:57
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#20
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
Well, I'm guessing you didn't have a 20 knots side wind That was the root problem yesterday.
But anyway -- yes, I've done it a lot with the anchor, and it is hugely better that way. One big advantage -- the chain won't get in your thruster. Big advantage #2 -- the weight of the chain, and friction against the bottom, helps a lot keeping you lined up.
Especially good on this boat because I have a helm control for the windlass, so I don't have to go forward to adjust the length.
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You're correct, I hade 13 knots of wind, but using the anchor makes all the difference. It would have been easy using a remote windlass control from the helm.... I should get one of those.
Forget about those telling you to let out line by hand, they've probably never felt 25 tons of boat tugging against them.
The wind was not "the root problem".... planning was the issue.
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18-07-2017, 07:03
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#21
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 35,024
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
. . . Forget about those telling you to let out line by hand, they've probably never felt 25 tons of boat tugging against them. . . .
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Indeed -- you can never hold a boat this size with your hands and should never try -- it's dangerous.
But I don't have a problem with this, either Med or Baltic -- I run the line through a cleat and back to an electric sheet winch. Makes it very easy to let out or take in the line without effort. I have had no problems Baltic mooring in four summers in the Baltic.
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18-07-2017, 07:21
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#22
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
You should have done what I did just a few hours ago when soloing into the customs dock, Med style in Cavtat.
Drop your anchor 150ft feet from the dock and let out 160ft of chain (I don't have a remote so I need to run up to the bow), then back in slowly using very short bursts from your bow thruster to steer until the anchor line is taught. Then attach your stern lines. You may need to go forward and let out more chain like I needed to, but at this point it's easier to estimate. I needed to let out more chain three times and back the boat in three times. NO DRAMA. But a little stressful in the preparation. Then go attach your bow lines if they're still needed.
Solo Med mooring made easy... sort of.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
Well, I'm guessing you didn't have a 20 knots side wind That was the root problem yesterday.
But anyway -- yes, I've done it a lot with the anchor, and it is hugely better that way. One big advantage -- the chain won't get in your thruster. Big advantage #2 -- the weight of the chain, and friction against the bottom, helps a lot keeping you lined up.
Especially good on this boat because I have a helm control for the windlass, so I don't have to go forward to adjust the length.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
Indeed -- you can never hold a boat this size with your hands and should never try -- it's dangerous.
But I don't have a problem with this, either Med or Baltic -- I run the line through a cleat and back to an electric sheet winch. Makes it very easy to let out or take in the line without effort. I have had no problems Baltic mooring in four summers in the Baltic.
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This being an English language forum and largely American, 95% of the people reading this don't have a clue of what you're discussing or know how to deal with this sort of situation. The folks who moor here in the Med (primarily European non-CF members) know how to Med moor., they know what works.
You've asked for advice, and I've described what works successfully, it's now your choice and the choice of others choice whether to use it or not. Mostly you're going to receive theoretical, dreamt up nonsense... do it which ever way you please.
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18-07-2017, 07:46
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#23
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 35,024
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
This being an English language forum and largely American, 95% of the people reading this don't have a clue of what you're discussing or know how to deal with this sort of situation. The folks who moor here in the Med (primarily European non-CF members) know how to Med moor., they know what works.
You've asked for advice, and I've described what works successfully, it's now your choice and the choice of others choice whether to use it or not. Mostly you're going to receive theoretical, dreamt up nonsense... do it which ever way you please.
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Other than using an anchor versus mooring ball, what you have suggested is exactly what I did -- and it didn't work. It's the classic way to do it, the way I was taught decades ago, and I've used this technique millions of times without incident, but it was no good for this case, with a cross wind gusting in the 20's. The anchor would have been much better, but was not an option in this place.
Therefore, one looks for other options. Of what has been suggested, for when the classical technique doesn't work, I think I like Pete's best. This is the most trouble, but the most conservative and least risk. The only thing which might prevent one from using this would be if there is no room to swing from the ball while you're getting the stern line ashore.
I also like the suggestion to Baltic moor instead of Med mooring, leaving the lines hanging from the pulpit. That gives much more control -- I like it. The big downside of this technique is I can't see the bow of my boat from the helm -- I can't really judge the distance. The greatest value of the bowman when I have crew is to call out the distance to the quay. I'm afraid I might bang the bow single handed.
Then lastly we have the idea of backing up to the quay and getting the stern line on first. There was enough room for me to easily get the stern up to the quay while holding the boat against the wind (would have required coming in at an angle). I think this could have worked. I'm only not sure about picking up the buoy single handed -- could I have stabilized the boat in the right spot in all that wind? I'd be interested in hearing more actual experience with this technique.
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18-07-2017, 08:06
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
If you insist on a med moor... why don't you launch your dink an have a very long line in it attached to the ship's stern cleat. Pick up the buoy and let the chain down... well clear of the quay... then get into the dink and bring the stern line to the quay and secure it... motor back to the mothership and let out anchor rode as you pull the stern line in bringing the stern close to the quay...
Of course have some fenders deployed at your stern before you begin.
You should add an anchor up down switch in the cockpit if you single hand.
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18-07-2017, 08:07
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#25
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
Other than using an anchor versus mooring ball, what you have suggested is exactly what I did -- and it didn't work. It's the classic way to do it, the way I was taught decades ago, and I've used this technique millions of times without incident, but it was no good for this case, with a cross wind gusting in the 20's. The anchor would have been much better, but was not an option in this place.
Therefore, one looks for other options. Of what has been suggested, for when the classical technique doesn't work, I think I like Pete's best. This is the most trouble, but the most conservative and least risk. The only thing which might prevent one from using this would be if there is no room to swing from the ball while you're getting the stern line ashore.
I also like the suggestion to Baltic moor instead of Med mooring, leaving the lines hanging from the pulpit. That gives much more control -- I like it. The big downside of this technique is I can't see the bow of my boat from the helm -- I can't really judge the distance. The greatest value of the bowman when I have crew is to call out the distance to the quay. I'm afraid I might bang the bow single handed.
Then lastly we have the idea of backing up to the quay and getting the stern line on first. There was enough room for me to easily get the stern up to the quay while holding the boat against the wind (would have required coming in at an angle). I think this could have worked. I'm only not sure about picking up the buoy single handed -- could I have stabilized the boat in the right spot in all that wind? I'd be interested in hearing more actual experience with this technique.
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Suit yourself, but I'm not the one wondering why I have a dockline stuck up my bowthruster tunnel.
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18-07-2017, 08:17
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#26
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 35,024
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandero
If you insist on a med moor... why don't you launch your dink an have a very long line in it attached to the ship's stern cleat. Pick up the buoy and let the chain down... well clear of the quay... then get into the dink and bring the stern line to the quay and secure it... motor back to the mothership and let out anchor rode as you pull the stern line in bringing the stern close to the quay...
Of course have some fenders deployed at your stern before you begin.
You should add an anchor up down switch in the cockpit if you single hand.
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That was just what Pete7 suggested -- if you had been reading the thread. It's a very good idea.
I don't need to add an "anchor up down switch in the cockpit" -- I already have one -- as you would know if you had read the other posts
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18-07-2017, 08:17
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#27
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 35,024
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
Suit yourself, but I'm not the one wondering why I have a dockline stuck up my bowthruster tunnel.
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I don't understand what you're arguing about -- what would you have done differently, from what I actually did?
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18-07-2017, 08:29
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#28
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
I don't understand what you're arguing about -- what would you have done differently, from what I actually did?
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USE THE ANCHOR like other people and myself do. It makes all the difference, but you don't seem to see the difference.
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18-07-2017, 08:46
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#29
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 35,024
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
USE THE ANCHOR like other people and myself do. It makes all the difference. . ..
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You are not allowed to use an anchor in many places where there are buoys put up chock-a-block like here. I am not in the Med.
Specifically prohibited in the harbor I'm in now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
. . . but you don't seem to see the difference.
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I specifically mentioned the difference, and specifically agreed that it's much better.
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18-07-2017, 08:48
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#30
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,692
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Re: Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
USE THE ANCHOR like other people and myself do. It makes all the difference, but you don't seem to see the difference.
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Don't be daft, there is a mooring ball which means there are ground chains and risers in the harbour. Sticking 80kgs of Rocna into that mess would really make someones day and provide hours of entertainment for the folks on the shore. In fact there is an excellent video of a yacht doing something similar on You Tube. I will see if I can link to it later, wasn't you by chance was it?
Pete
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