Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

[Oceanbrew]

I sail on a river, and must motor from a smaller river to a larger river to sail. This requires passing under 2 drawbridges. So even if the wind is right I still motor until I am past the bridges.
If I'm making a trip, and I only have a certain amount of time. I motorsail unless the wind is really strong. I need to average at least 4kts most of the time to get anywhere. Sometimes I end up traveling against the wind due to my destination. So motoring is the only way to arrive in a timely manner. But I hate using the motor. It's just too loud, and unseaman-like.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Oceanbrew

It's just too loud, and unseaman-like.

Unseamanlike is one of those terms that people throw around, often as an insult.

There is nothing unseamanlike in properly using the auxilliary engine.

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by Oceanbrew

I sail on a river, and must motor from a smaller river to a larger river to sail. This requires passing under 2 drawbridges. So even if the wind is right I still motor until I am past the bridges.
If I'm making a trip, and I only have a certain amount of time. I motorsail unless the wind is really strong. I need to average at least 4kts most of the time to get anywhere. Sometimes I end up traveling against the wind due to my destination. So motoring is the only way to arrive in a timely manner. But I hate using the motor. It's just too loud, and unseaman-like.

ah ya big issy, nuttin more fun than opening up three 250 hp mercs in the back and feeling the brute force send you slicing through the chop at +40 knots with the wind and sleet pelting the windscreen as you race to the next fuel stop to feed those thirsty mercs.

on the other hand there is nothing better than to feel the power of the wind in the sails as you feel her responce to your hand on the tiller working to keep her in that sweet spot

I love anything to do with the sea, river, except jet skies and inconsiderate boaters! Never owned fewer than three boats since the age of 30 and I am 68 now

[Hoofsmit]

Ok off topic but.... Jet ski's?
I have owned trapeze racing dinghies, ribs a 22ft and 30ft planning MV a traditional carval planked crabber plus a few other craft,

Oh and a jet ski,

I saw the worst accident from an idiot of a 28 ft sailing cruiser who t boned a moored vessel because of weather helm and an incompetent crew and deciding to try his new boat out in the middle of a small harbour in a regatta race!
So before you generalise about competency , in my 40+ years the worst I have seen are gentlemen who think they are above jet skiers because they own a sail boat!


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[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

The delivery skippers are the ones that motor a lot as they are on time restrictions. Coastal cruising we sail every chance we get but we also do motor in the calms. Offshore we do not motor at all.

That's right, it depends on our purpose for being aboard that day and what your priorities are that day.

I'd much prefer to sail, and if I'm just out coastal cruising, as long as I'm making discernible headway, I'll sail. But there are always realities that cause that preference to be adjusted, such as the wife wants to get to our planned anchorage in time to go ashore for any number of reasons, or we have some other time constraint to meet. If possible, I tend to try to wait until the last hour or so to run the engine, which means we'll arrive at our anchorage or mooring with fully charged batteries and plenty of hot water for showers or dish washing after dinner and since I'll need the engine on after we drop the sails anyway to get to the mooring or anchorage, it's probably only an additional 30 minutes or so of motoring beyond the amount we'd use it by waiting until we approach the harbor to turn it on. By starting it an hour out also means I get a chance to work the engine fairly hard so it gets properly heated up, whereas if I wait until approaching the harbor when I normally would douse the sails, I'd probably never get above 2000rpm, which is horrible for engine health.

When delivering the boat to a different location that will take several days, again I'd prefer to sail, but I also must keep in mind that I have to be back at work a week from Tuesday and I really want the boat at our destination a day or two before then, so have to average a certain speed, which is usually about 5 knots. I can motor or motorsail at 8 knots so if I get a chance to keep the engine off and just sail, as long as I'm doing at least 3 knots, I'll sail, hoping the wind picks up later in the day, but if it doesn't pick up, I know I can turn on the engine a couple hours before we want to arrive at that nights destination to make up for the time we spent sailing slowly.

The only times I've been offshore, I've been delivering either my boat or someone else's so had a schedule to attempt to meet. Once I retire and get a chance to sail with no schedule to meet, I'd like to think I'll leave the engine off and just accept that I'm not going very fast and that's OK. I'm very much looking forward to that day!

I don't think we can justify any gold stars for outstanding seamanship, or criticism for "lubberly behavior" for running the engine as much or as little as we individually wish, depending on factors that only we may be aware of. So, when I'm enjoying teasing everything I can out of a 4 knot breeze on a beautiful day, and a large sailboat goes steaming by at 8 knots, I try not to make any judgments about him, because after all he may have a long way to go that day, or he may have flat batteries that need charging, or his boss may have just called and needed him back at work early, or any number of other valid reasons. The auxiliary engine is a nice tool to be used as the skipper deems necessary, or the admiral demands, and it's really nobody else's business.

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

That's right, it depends on our purpose for being aboard that day and what your priorities are that day.

I'd much prefer to sail, and if I'm just out coastal cruising, as long as I'm making discernible headway, I'll sail. But there are always realities that cause that preference to be adjusted, such as the wife wants to get to our planned anchorage in time to go ashore for any number of reasons, or we have some other time constraint to meet. If possible, I tend to try to wait until the last hour or so to run the engine, which means we'll arrive at our anchorage or mooring with fully charged batteries and plenty of hot water for showers or dish washing after dinner and since I'll need the engine on after we drop the sails anyway to get to the mooring or anchorage, it's probably only an additional 30 minutes or so of motoring beyond the amount we'd use it by waiting until we approach the harbor to turn it on. By starting it an hour out also means I get a chance to work the engine fairly hard so it gets properly heated up, whereas if I wait until approaching the harbor when I normally would douse the sails, I'd probably never get above 2000rpm, which is horrible for engine health.

When delivering the boat to a different location that will take several days, again I'd prefer to sail, but I also must keep in mind that I have to be back at work a week from Tuesday and I really want the boat at our destination a day or two before then, so have to average a certain speed, which is usually about 5 knots. I can motor or motorsail at 8 knots so if I get a chance to keep the engine off and just sail, as long as I'm doing at least 3 knots, I'll sail, hoping the wind picks up later in the day, but if it doesn't pick up, I know I can turn on the engine a couple hours before we want to arrive at that nights destination to make up for the time we spent sailing slowly.

The only times I've been offshore, I've been delivering either my boat or someone else's so had a schedule to attempt to meet. Once I retire and get a chance to sail with no schedule to meet, I'd like to think I'll leave the engine off and just accept that I'm not going very fast and that's OK. I'm very much looking forward to that day!

I don't think we can justify any gold stars for outstanding seamanship, or criticism for "lubberly behavior" for running the engine as much or as little as we individually wish, depending on factors that only we may be aware of. So, when I'm enjoying teasing everything I can out of a 4 knot breeze on a beautiful day, and a large sailboat goes steaming by at 8 knots, I try not to make any judgments about him, because after all he may have a long way to go that day, or he may have flat batteries that need charging, or his boss may have just called and needed him back at work early, or any number of other valid reasons. The auxiliary engine is a nice tool to be used as the skipper deems necessary, or the admiral demands, and it's really nobody else's business.

very well said....But there is still a lot of enjoyment in putting a thousand hp +70 knot boat through her paces as well. All forms of watercraft have a place and as long as they are handled in a courteous safe manner without infringing upon other boaters I like them all except jet skies. I'm 68 and have yet to see a jet ski operated in a safe courteous way

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by Hoofsmit

Ok off topic but.... Jet ski's?
I have owned trapeze racing dinghies, ribs a 22ft and 30ft planning MV a traditional carval planked crabber plus a few other craft,

Oh and a jet ski,

I saw the worst accident from an idiot of a 28 ft sailing cruiser who t boned a moored vessel because of weather helm and an incompetent crew and deciding to try his new boat out in the middle of a small harbour in a regatta race!
So before you generalise about competency , in my 40+ years the worst I have seen are gentlemen who think they are above jet skiers because they own a sail boat!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I don't recall anyone saying that incompetent boat/vessel operation is ok. We said that in general jetskis are operated in an unsafe fashion often by kids and adults with no nautical knowledge whatsoever and are therefore a definite hazard all boaters must guard against

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

very well said....But there is still a lot of enjoyment in putting a thousand hp +70 knot boat through her paces as well. All forms of watercraft have a place and as long as they are handled in a courteous safe manner without infringing upon other boaters I like them all except jet skies. I'm 68 and have yet to see a jet ski operated in a safe courteous way

Many times, as a jet ski sped too closely by, or round and round an anchorage, I've found myself wondering just how much lead I'd need to pull in order to score a direct hit on one with my 12 gauge, and if I was successful, could I have it mounted over my fireplace at home? Theme for a new video game?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Hoofsmit

Ok off topic but.... Jet ski's?
I have owned trapeze racing dinghies, ribs a 22ft and 30ft planning MV a traditional carval planked crabber plus a few other craft,

Oh and a jet ski,

I saw the worst accident from an idiot of a 28 ft sailing cruiser who t boned a moored vessel because of weather helm and an incompetent crew and deciding to try his new boat out in the middle of a small harbour in a regatta race!
So before you generalise about competency , in my 40+ years the worst I have seen are gentlemen who think they are above jet skiers because they own a sail boat!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

The price of incompetency is far greater for 50 knot jet skis than for 5 knot 28 foot yachts. Don't read of very many fatal accidents with small sailing vessels, but a fair number of fatalities and general maimings with the dread ski-doos.

And at least the sailing boat is quiet and is unlikely to do continuous laps around your anchored boat.

Cheers,

Jim

[zeehag]

criticizing others for engine use is unseamanlike behaviour.

[Ex-Calif]

Thanks for the post - I boiled it down and I am gonna use it. I am calling it

"Dan's List of Excuses for Unseamanlike Use of the Auxilliary Engine."

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

That's right, it depends on our purpose for being aboard that day and what your priorities are that day.

- the wife wants to get to our planned anchorage in time to go ashore for any number of reasons
- we have some other time constraint to meet.
- we'll arrive at our anchorage or mooring with fully charged batteries
- and plenty of hot water for showers
- dish washing after dinner
- I'll need the engine on after we drop the sails anyway
- it's probably only an additional 30 minutes or so of motoring
- I get a chance to work the engine fairly hard
- so it gets properly heated up

- I have to be back at work a week from Tuesday
- I really want the boat at our destination a day or two early

And My Favorite!

- Once I retire <snip> I'll leave the engine off

Originally Posted by zeehag

criticizing others for engine use is unseamanlike behaviour.

Amen, sistah!

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Thanks for the post - I boiled it down and I am gonna use it. I am calling it

"Dan's List of Excuses for Unseamanlike Use of the Auxilliary Engine."





Amen, sistah!

Should probably add, "because it's my boat and I want to."

[zeehag]

and DO NOT forget NYAAAAHHHHH..i use it because i CAN!!!!!!!
and--my engine is better than yours... rodlmffao. i can guarantee that at this time, a s i have ZERO hours on a completely 100 percent rebuilt engine and injector pump.
and best thing about that---
i only had to shell out under 4000 usd for ALL of it.
NYAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!

oh yes. i know where the good fix is in pair a dice.... need help--just ask.


my perkins doesnt even drip oil yet. when it does i will be happy, as perkins are brit and if they dont leak a smidgeon, they will blow up or break.

thing is tighter than a brand new never driven sporty car....


so i CAN!!!!!
so there.

[Lake-Effect]

I have to say that for the most part, we don't get bothered by jetskis. Their wake is small, and unless they are coming way too close or are deliberately harassing us (both VERY rare)... they are just momentary noise disturbances.

I'm much more disturbed by BIG $$$ stinkboats... why do so many of them run at that inefficient speed where they're pushing the biggest possible wave, just under planing speed? Couple that with their disregard for sailboats, and always crossing in front... Grrrr.

(more on-topic: the master of the vessel should make her/his passage in a safe manner, with regard for the well-being and comfort of their crew and passengers. Motor if you need to)

[montenido]

Originally Posted by zeehag

criticizing others for engine use is unseamanlike behaviour.