Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

[lesterbutch]

Seniormechanico
What about volitile organic acids with an oil change being that infrequent? I was always told they could be quite damaging to the engine.

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by lesterbutch

Seniormechanico
What about volitile organic acids with an oil change being that infrequent? I was always told they could be quite damaging to the engine.

Use 100% synthetic oil and avoid all of that. The acids form from the breakdown of of the oil due to heat and microbial action which dosent happen with syn
In 1979 I switched my customers over to synthetic oil because they didn't change oil often and noticed over the years a definite decrease in repairs as a result. Back then the only game was mobil 1 or Amzoil. I have used them ever since. One of my customers just asked me if I wished to have my ole Ford Bronco back that I had sold him in 94 with 44,000. He said he tried to sell it but no one wanted it cause of the miles, close to 400,000. He said the truck still ran perfect and was all original no major repairs. I converted it over to full syn after breakin and Tom countinued that practice till he donated it to the Salvation Army. Tom's SeaRay was one of the first boats I used to work on that I converted to syn. He is almost 90 now and still boats.
Synthetic is really a no brainer in boats or in any engine that you plan to keep

[lesterbutch]

Wow, see that it's true you never stop learning new things.
Thanks, i'll make sure and use synthetics in all my engines from now on.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

Use 100% synthetic oil and avoid all of that. The acids form from the breakdown of of the oil due to heat and microbial action which dosent happen with syn
In 1979 I switched my customers over to synthetic oil because they didn't change oil often and noticed over the years a definite decrease in repairs as a result. Back then the only game was mobil 1 or Amzoil. I have used them ever since. One of my customers just asked me if I wished to have my ole Ford Bronco back that I had sold him in 94 with 44,000. He said he tried to sell it but no one wanted it cause of the miles, close to 400,000. He said the truck still ran perfect and was all original no major repairs. I converted it over to full syn after breakin and Tom countinued that practice till he donated it to the Salvation Army. Tom's SeaRay was one of the first boats I used to work on that I converted to syn. He is almost 90 now and still boats.
Synthetic is really a no brainer in boats or in any engine that you plan to keep

I've always used syn in high performance motorcycles that are spec'd for it, but don't you want to make sure your boat engine is compatible with it? Maybe it doesn't matter. I've also heard that it's good at resisting viscosity loss, but makes little difference when it comes to chemically-induced breakdown. The only other negative I've heard is that if you have an older engine it may leak (or weep) past the seals. No personal expertise here, just based on what I've heard & read over some years.

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by Exile

I've always used syn in high performance motorcycles that are spec'd for it, but don't you want to make sure your boat engine is compatible with it? Maybe it doesn't matter. I've also heard that it's good at resisting viscosity loss, but makes little difference when it comes to chemically-induced breakdown. The only other negative I've heard is that if you have an older engine it may leak (or weep) past the seals. No personal expertise here, just based on what I've heard & read over some years.

you must use the proper syn oil for the engine. If in doubt contact Mobil1 or Amsoil and they will point you to the oil with the proper additive package for your application. I have a 1975 Ford 2000 Diesel tractor I have used syn in since I bought it twenty years ago. I changed the oil about seven years ago and then went to work with the tractor in one of my pastures a 1/2 mile away. After working for a while I noticed my oil light was on but didn't really think much about it so kept working for a bit then decided to cheack the oil. No oil!, no drain plug. When I was finishing the oil change my neighbor dropped by and distracted me so I never tightened down the drain plug. Anyway, at this point I did another dumb thing, I drove the tractor back to the barn and refilled the crankcase with a new plug. I thought the engine would be history after that but it has never missed a lick and is used every year brush hogging the cattle pastures for blackberry control. Still starts in a heartbeat and runs as strong as ever. Synthetic oils I heard bond to the metal for better lubrication and my tractor experience may be the proof of that. Now I'm not talking about a blended oil I am talking about 100% synthetic motor oil. The blends whoch are cheaper in my opinion are no better than conventional oil because they contain conventional oil which cant take heat or cold and breaks down to form sludge and other compounds.

[a64pilot]

I am a major fan of Syn oil and run it in everything I've had for the last 40 yrs or so, I'm also the guy that keeps a vehicle until it falls apart, not the guy who buys new every couple of years.
But, I believe a strong argument could be made that it's not needed in a small boat Diesel and its a waste of money. Do not use it with the idea of extending oil change intervals, our oils don't really break down, they get full of soot and need to be changed to remove the soot.
I chose to waste the money, it's mine after all.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

you must use the proper syn oil for the engine. If in doubt contact Mobil1 or Amsoil and they will point you to the oil with the proper additive package for your application. I have a 1975 Ford 2000 Diesel tractor I have used syn in since I bought it twenty years ago. I changed the oil about seven years ago and then went to work with the tractor in one of my pastures a 1/2 mile away. After working for a while I noticed my oil light was on but didn't really think much about it so kept working for a bit then decided to cheack the oil. No oil!, no drain plug. When I was finishing the oil change my neighbor dropped by and distracted me so I never tightened down the drain plug. Anyway, at this point I did another dumb thing, I drove the tractor back to the barn and refilled the crankcase with a new plug. I thought the engine would be history after that but it has never missed a lick and is used every year brush hogging the cattle pastures for blackberry control. Still starts in a heartbeat and runs as strong as ever. Synthetic oils I heard bond to the metal for better lubrication and my tractor experience may be the proof of that. Now I'm not talking about a blended oil I am talking about 100% synthetic motor oil. The blends whoch are cheaper in my opinion are no better than conventional oil because they contain conventional oil which cant take heat or cold and breaks down to form sludge and other compounds.

I've heard similar stories about synthetic oil, and your tractor one is definitely a good one! What I meant is whether in some, presumably older engines it's not advisable to use anything other than a dino oil. Your stories suggest it doesn't matter.

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I am a major fan of Syn oil and run it in everything I've had for the last 40 yrs or so, I'm also the guy that keeps a vehicle until it falls apart, not the guy who buys new every couple of years.
But, I believe a strong argument could be made that it's not needed in a small boat Diesel and its a waste of money. Do not use it with the idea of extending oil change intervals, our oils don't really break down, they get full of soot and need to be changed to remove the soot.
I chose to waste the money, it's mine after all.

The greatest advantage with syn oil is that it lubricates better in cold and hot temps than conventional oil. Bearing temps can reach several hundred degrees f and conventional oils oxidize providing no lubrication at these high temps while syn still lubricates. In cold temps syn still flows and doesn't turn to a rock like conventional oils do so helps decrease engine wear on start up.
I'm like you I change oil at the recommended change interval and always use full syn oil. The experts claim you can extend oil change intervals with 100% syn if you do an oil analysis at intervals to determine dirt load in suspension.
All I know is on syn I have never lost an engine except one and I like you keep vehicles until they fall apart but are still running fine. The one that quit did so with a broken crankshaft at just under 200,000 miles. Went to work and it ran fine parked, then after work it wouldn't start. Tore the engine apart and found a broken crank.

[19 and counting]

Oh now we are being called cheaters for wanting to run our engine if it get's to the point where the sails are banging around and no one is going anywhere, or we want to be in an anchorage by dark or whatever! Who made the rules? Ridiculous discussion.
Yes we all agree we love the silent sail. I just talked my husband out of two twin engine boats we had owned to buy a "real" sailor cause of that. One was a Lancer 44 motorsailor, a beautiful boat we sailed through Mexico, then a Defever 43, that we lived on a sailed to the local islands. Back to sail, but within reason with ONE engine running. We are retired and can't afford to feed a thirsty beast anymore, and that's twice the maintenance, also a practical reason. We are next removing the staysail and its outdated roller furler and going back to a hank on in a bag on deck when not being used! We miss the simplicity of that rigging system when we are able to handle that on deck. Still will roller furl the headstay/sail.
Cheers!

[Starside]

I'm converting my boat to electric propulsion. (See my thread, Starside's Electric Conversion). Anyway, I always thought that sail boats (I'm an antique power boat) would be ideal for electric motors.

By the way, the wooden motor sailers are gorgeous & I would think one advantage of a motor sailor is a larger cabin area. Granted, I know there's a big sail boat vs powerboat argument, but I like to think my boat is the exception. I will say most sail boaters appreciate my boat much more than the modern power boaters...but I digress. Anyway, consider electric!


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[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

All I know is on syn I have never lost an engine except one and I like you keep vehicles until they fall apart but are still running fine. The one that quit did so with a broken crankshaft at just under 200,000 miles. Went to work and it ran fine parked, then after work it wouldn't start. Tore the engine apart and found a broken crank.

The odd thing is I've never bothered with synthetic oil and never lost an engine...no exceptions. I've sold a few at north of 200k miles (all north of 150k) and the engine was still humming along fine. Last engine I've seen among friends and family that had problems that could have been oil related was almost 40yrs ago when my brother bought an old beater and tried to rebuild the engine. Shortly after the crank bearings fried...but my bet is he messed up during the rebuild rather than the type of oil being the culprit.

Unless the manufacturer calls for it or you are running the engine exceptionally hard, I don't see where it will make any difference and I've yet to hear anything but old wives tales that it's better.

[ravenhawk82]

The location of my marina dictates that I have to motor about 15 minutes to get to where I can put my sails up. However, once I hit that point, the motor doesn't come back on until either I'm going home or the wind dies and I'm in someone's way (the lower Columbia river is a busy place). Having the motor in the cockpit (as opposed to on a transom mount) is an excellent deterrent from cheating, as it means that any time the motor is running you can't have a conversation without shouting at each other. I prefer a long relaxing cruise over a short loud one any day, as do my friends that often crew with me. Granted, if I had somewhere I needed to be and the wind wasn't cooperating, I'd bite the bullet and fire up the engine. Thankfully, most of my sailing is done without a time limit.

[Sheemgal]

Sadly we motor a lot more than id like to. When a trip is planned. Its planned! Come a 20knot head wind or nothing we go.

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by Sheemgal

Sadly we motor a lot more than id like to. When a trip is planned. Its planned! Come a 20knot head wind or nothing we go.

So your a motor boater and not a sailor?....chuckle......I also mostly motor

[thomm225]

As an exbeach cat racing sailor, I have learned that the only time you will never motor is when you don't have an engine.

If you have one, you will most certainly use it from time to time.