Propane, the kiss of death

[Pelagic]

Hats off Dockhead.....
You are a powerful debater....
......who happens to be correct !

[tarian]

These tanks do not rust to the point of failure , the marine environment is harsh but salt water needs to be a constant to effect steel painted tanks, to rust
I have two 15kg butane tanks in lockers outside and no signs of rust of failure in tanks,
The failure points are poor regulators, and poor piping which can rust and crack , a simple bubble gas detector beside the regulator detects tests and should be used daily .
And regulators should be inspected as part of the boat maintenance.
ANY explosive material , GAS. DIESEL , GASOLINE , has the ability to create an explosion, fire including your BATTERY bank,
I would think there are more lost boats to failure in the eletrical systems than gas explosions
This is human error, failure, and stupidity look after all your BOAT and you will lessen any issues quite considerably!!!!
This s usual a fear story that puts people into a panic and stresses them out .

[boatpoker]

2lb. Guiness stew with puff pastry

3.5lb. prime rib

Hot, fresh ciabatta.

I'll stick with my properly designed and maintained propane system

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

2lb. Guiness stew with puff pastry

3.5lb. rib roast

Hot, fresh ciabatta.

I'll stick with my properly designed and maintained propane system

Wow, I didn't realize you were a gourmet chef!

And all that in a gas oven? Hats off to you.

Another disadvantage of gas cooking, besides safety, is that gas ovens suck. Mine particularly so, but the one on the last boat was nearly as bad. I dream about a proper convection oven.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by tarian

This s usual a fear story that puts people into a panic and stresses them out .

Welll .....
That's one way to look at it . ...

Another way is to think of it as a friendly reminder to those less aware of the dangers

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Another disadvantage of gas cooking, besides safety, is that gas ovens suck. Mine particularly so, but the one on the last boat was nearly as bad. I dream about a proper convection oven.

See the pizza stone under that roast duck ?

Makes a tremendous difference in the oven, no hot spots just even heat.
Bread, puff pastry, cake, no problem. Best oven ever.

We also have a pizza stone on our grill. Heat it up, turn it off ... apply steaks

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

See the pizza stone under that roast duck ?

Makes a tremendous difference in the oven, no hot spots just even heat.
Bread, puff pastry, cake, no problem. Best oven ever.

We also have a pizza stone on our grill. Heat it up, turn it off ... apply steaks

Hot tip (so to speak ).


That's a great idea; thanks for that.


Since I'm stuck with my gas oven for the foreseeable, I will definitely acquire one of those!!


What the pizza stone won't do, however, is keep the flame in my oven from blowing out

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Wow, I didn't realize you were a gourmet chef!

And all that in a gas oven? Hats off to you.

Another disadvantage of gas cooking, besides safety, is that gas ovens suck. Mine particularly so, but the one on the last boat was nearly as bad. I dream about a proper convection oven.

I’ve had the same experience. All the marine gas ovens heat unevenly and take forever to cone up to temperature.

I tried buying a household gas oven for my boat and never saw it required some very large vertical clearances, so it didn’t end up fitting in the galley. Whoops.

After all this experience with different gas ovens. I gave up. I got the largest countertop electric toaster oven they make. It’s been wonderful. You can put a small Turkey in, a pizza. It has convection, not that you need it because it heats evenly anyway.

I just do my oven off the generator now. I realized it’s not really that long you need to run an oven, so it’s no problem to do it on a generator run.

Electric does rule the oven world. And if you feel your bread is a bit dry banking in the electric, just add a spot of water inside in a small dish.

Added bonus? Weighs just a few pounds.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What the pizza stone won't do, however, is keep the flame in my oven from blowing out

Can't help with that. I've never had that experience with my present setup.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Can't help with that. I've never had that experience with my present setup.

Not all gas ovens are created equal. In my view, they all suck, but some suck harder than others. Mine is one of those

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

To put it another way, you will dramatically improve safety on your boat by getting rid of the gas system altogether and installing induction. You have just eliminated ALL the risks associated with gas while adding almost zero ADDITIONAL risk from electrical fires.

This is NOT true, for most boats. MOST bats that add induction cooking go from a relatively low power electrical system where the highest power draw is probably a few hundred watts to one where several thousand watts operate for an extended time. To do this a large amount of additional, or totally new, high amperage DC wiring is added. This is the dangerous part of our electrical systems.

The fact is I have data that shows that electrical systems are a greatly higher risk to boats than propane systems. Granted, I have no data for the ADDITIONAL risk a boat owner takes by adding a significant amount of high power DC wiring, but your (also dataless) argument that that additional risk is ZERO, does not pass the "giggle test."

You have NO data, just an argument. You claim that induction cooking is riskless (or at least has a zero increase of risk on a given boat). I say it is not. I, for one, never said it is more or less dangerous than propane, because nobody has the data broken down that way... I do stand by my statement, backed by data, that electrical systems destroy more boats than propane.

I have put out four boat fires on other people's boats in the last 30 years. Everyone of them was terrifying and scary, and every one was electrical in origin.

For what it is worth, I like a good induction cooker. They are a great tool.

I am terrified of gasoline and propane (AND ELECTRICITY!) on OTHER people's boats. On my boat where I know they are installed and maintained to a professional standard, they are as safe as any house.

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

2lb. Guiness stew with puff pastry

3.5lb. prime rib

Hot, fresh ciabatta.

I'll stick with my properly designed and maintained propane system

You and me both! But I do have combination microwave/convection oven that is fantastic for some things.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by BillKny

This is NOT true, for most boats. MOST bats that add induction cooking go from a relatively low power electrical system where the highest power draw is probably a few hundred watts to one where several thousand watts operate for an extended time. To do this a large amount of additional, or totally new, high amperage DC wiring is added. This is the dangerous part of our electrical systems.

Where do you get such an idea? Do you have statistics? Do you even know a single boat which has converted to induction which didn't have a vacuum cleaner on board? Or an electric kettle? Or electric heaters? Some even have washer/dryers -- I do.



A low powered boat which doesn't have any of the above isn't even a candidate for electrical cooking -- who would install a whole electrical system around only one appliance?


ALL the boats I know which have converted to (or even added) induction cooking already have high powered electrical systems and multiple large electrical consumers.

Originally Posted by BillKny

. . .The fact is I have data that shows that electrical systems are a greatly higher risk to boats than propane systems. Granted, I have no data for the ADDITIONAL risk a boat owner takes by adding a significant amount of high power DC wiring, but your (also dataless) argument that that additional risk is ZERO, does not pass the "giggle test."


You have NO data, just an argument. You claim that induction cooking is riskless (or at least has a zero increase of risk on a given boat). I say it is not. I, for one, never said it is more or less dangerous than propane, because nobody has the data broken down that way... I do stand by my statement, backed by data, that electrical systems destroy more boats than propane. . . .

The argument is absolutely sound based on its premises. And that argument also says that the last underlined proposition is entirely irrelevant.


Your argument might possibly hold some water with respect to boats with no high power electrical systems, which add high power electrical system in order to introduce electrical cooking. So -- no electric kettle, no microwave, no vacuum cleaner, no electrical heating (which is the big one); induction cooking is the first high power consumer on board. Then we might compare apples to apples -- risks from electrical fires to risks from gas explosions. Even then I'm not sure the electrical risks -- in terms of death and maiming -- are greater.



But with regard to the typical case (and the only case where electric cooking makes any sense), what I wrote is correct -- the incremental risk from electric cooking approaches zero, and the reduction of risk by eliminating the gas system altogether is significant, so with a large net gain of safety.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

Good point, but the OP's story smells. For example did someone smell the propane before blowing the boat? If no one did and it sank then how do they know it was a propane leak, and not something else say acetone.

i kept 1 pound propane bottles for too long in plastic baggies.. when i finally disposed of em, there was zero propane in the bottles and none in baggies and no odor ever..i have quite the sensitive schnozz being asthmatic and triggered by such odors.. better sniffer than the sniffer in an islander 26 i had long ago..and i have a 4 legged sniffer---a cat. .. so the point is.. the stuff doesnot always have the smell of kiss of death before being bad for you, BUT proper handling is a major issue.
no i used none of the 1 pound cannisters i had stored for emergencies.. chucked it all.
as for steel tanks--they rust in 3 yrs. i use aluminum tanks.. awesome longevity. they just donot rust thru like steelies do..have had one fo rover 20 yrs,.longest i could get out of steelies was 3 yrs.
now after so many years on board i finally again have a solenoid and special box for twin aluminum tanks and life is always good.
oh yeah also donot keep the propane in cabin. make sure it is kept out of the cabin and in a locale not able to communicate with engine bilges.
since 1990 i have owned many boats i lived on board..only 2, my ericson and this formosa have been equipped with solenoid systems. never had an issue but i have never been stoopit with it, either.

as f or electric stoves-- chuck em. they heat and continue heating until the surfaces are so hot... momma almost burned her house in st louis with electric stove.. nasty affairs. left burner on with kettle of water that dried and went on to melt on stovetop. nope cannot tell me electric is safer... gimme good ol propane..

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by zeehag

as f or electric stoves-- chuck em. they heat and continue heating until the surfaces are so hot... momma almost burned her house in st louis with electric stove.. nasty affairs. left burner on with kettle of water that dried and went on to melt on stovetop. nope cannot tell me electric is safer... gimme good ol propane..

Induction stoves typically have a temperature limit to prevent that problem. They won't allow an item on the stove to be heated above a certain temperature to avoid fires from empty pots, etc. It's a concern with resistive electric (or a high powered gas stove), however. But the vast majority of resistive electric stoves on boats (including mine) are on boats that were built with an electric galley. Very few people retrofit them, most go induction for a retrofit.