Propane, the kiss of death

[Adelie]

Induction only works for stovetop burners. You could probably put a steel “grill plate” like in the attached photo.

For an oven I would get a larger countertop convection oven (Breville is highest rated currently) or a convection/microwave.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Propane safety rules are interesting. There is a multitude of devices that can add to propane saftey:

Vented locker for storage
Remote shut of valve
Propane "fuse"
Gas detector or detectors
Pressure gauge
Bubble tester
Shut off valve before each appliance
Continuous copper pipe with no joints (other than a short flexible section)
Safety stickers
Conduits/ chafe protection
Frequent replacement of hoses/regulators etc
Frequent professional inspection and certification
All work carried out by licensed professionals.

I am sure there are many more.

It would be interesting to debate which of these steps are most effective. Some of them are mutually exclusive. Eg. A a shut off valve before each appliance is not compatible with a continuous copper pipe with no joints. Which one of these adds more to safety?

When this topic appears on a forum it is not unusual for members to quote the rules relevant to their particular country. "You must fit A, B and C" without realising that other jurisdictions mandate D, E and F.

Shut off valve before each appliance is a failure point.
What is a propane fuse?
I advocate for having a very bright light on the solenoid switch as a reminder to turn it off. I don't like those dim little lights that come with the panels. A big red lighted rocker switch is the way to go.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Shut off valve before each appliance is a failure point.

True, but it is also a point that can be used to quickly mechanically shut off the propane if, for example, the cooker is engulfed in flames, or if the flexible hose between the copper pipe and cooker bursts or works loose. If multiple propane systems are fitted it also allows for the gas to be open only to the device in use. A solenoid at the gas bottle opens the supply to all devices, even if they are not in use.

Some authorities consider this shut off valve is an essential piece of safety equipment, but of course this cannot be fitted without violating the "no joints in the copper pipe rule". So is this rule sensible or counter productive? Are the authorities that insist on a shut off valve before each appliance sensible or stupid?

Personally, I think we need some flexibility. As I indicated in post #382 there are a multitude of devices and installation practices that contribute to propane safety. All of these would be overkill, and many would not be appropriate to all boats. Some are mutually exclusive. Selecting a sensible range of devices to ensure a safe system is important, but posters on this forum tend to insist devices A, B and C must be fitted to be safe (perhaps because these are the devices mandated by the country where they live) while ignoring other often worthwhile options.

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

What is a propane fuse?

It is a device for a propane system that is analogous to an electrical fuse or circuit breaker for an electrical installation. It will allow propane to flow providing the flow rate is consistent with what the device would normally use. If the flow rate becomes too high, as would happen if a pipe burst, it will automatically shut off the supply. So in operation they are a very similar concept to an electrical fuse or circuit breaker, but for a propane system.

They are clever and simple mechanical devices that require no electricity. Typically they also incorporate a conventional manual shut off valve in the one product. They are mandated for some marine installations (mainly for commercial vessels) but once again as they are usually fitted close to the gas appliance (as they also typically incorporate a shut off valve), so they also violate the "no joints in the copper pipe rule", that some insist is vital.

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I advocate for having a very bright light on the solenoid switch as a reminder to turn it off. I don't like those dim little lights that come with the panels. A big red lighted rocker switch is the way to go.

Good point.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Question:



The only one I’ve used was not good because instead of changing the energy output to precisely control temperature, it turned on and off like an air conditioner or heater does. That was awful for cooking.



What’s your experience with ones that control energy output instead of switching on and off to control temperature? Do these exist?

We have been using this Elba 4 hob countertop for over 6 years now and it has worked very well in daily use

http://www.elbaphilippines.com/store...45-004_IS.html

For low power simmering the control is very precise where each power can adjust say a tomato sauce from small, medium to large bubbles on settings 2/3/4

For fast ramp up, put it on 6 or 7 and it will quickly boil. That is when you see the pulse of just one second as it regulates power into pot. At low setting its hardly noticeable

Unit is flexible 50/60Hz.... 210- 260Vac

The size happened to be the exact same dimensions of my Smeg 4 burner propane, but unlike the Smeg, it also acts as another countertop while cooking on 1 or 2 hobs

I built a stainless rail around it with slots for dividers that lock the pot in.
Not as good as gimbled, but I prefer the Drawer and storage underneath so just use deeper pots if rolly.

As far as power,

Up until this year was using just a 3000w Multi and you needed to stagger the high settings if needed for each dish, but again, that is just for a very short time. For example, start Rice at 7 then once it boils in a few minutes, down to 4 for cooking
Same with pasta

Reason we upsized to 5kw Multi was so that we could use kettle or toaster simultaneously without concern while scrambling some delicate eggs

Zaida will often precook a variety of portion meals for freezing:
Beef Stews/Curries/Chowders/Spaghetti Sauces etc, so the stove can be going all day while Solar is productive, without having any issues with stove.

It is very reliable and consistent

Still looks like new and the only quirk I've noticed is that the touch controls can be sensitive to direct sunlight through the porthole. But now, with no flame, we have curtains above stove

This model is now US$750 and if it ever failed, I'd buy the same in a heartbeat.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

We have been using this Elba 4 hob countertop for over 6 years now and it has worked very well in daily use
.

And here's me freaking out at the high amp draw of a single 1500w electric kettle for several minutes on battery alone.

Number of Cooking Zones: 4 induction cooking zones
Cooking Zone 145mm, Normal power: 1200W (2)
Booster power: 1400W
Cooking Zone 210mm, Normal power: 1500W (2)
Booster power: 3000W

What sort of battery have you got to run that?
Or is it Genset only?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

And here's me freaking out at the high amp draw of a single 1500w electric kettle for several minutes on battery alone.



What sort of battery have you got to run that?
Or is it Genset only?

I presently have 8 x 260AH Fullriver AGM or 1040AH @ 24v.

They will probably be replaced with Lithium in about 3 years.

In the tropics with 1650 watts of Solar, the house bank recovers fairly quickly from normal cooking and we do use the outside BBQ quite a bit

With my choice of stove, my reasoning is that the cooking power is there if you need it, but like a main engine, you don't run it full blast continuously.

The Genset is still there but is not being used alot unless we want aircon

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I presently have 8 x 260AH Fullriver AGM or 1040AH @ 24v.

They will probably be replaced with Lithium in about 3 years.

So similar to us, 8x220 @24v
2500w of solar
And hopefully will have LFP up and running in 3 weeks

In the tropics with 1650 watts of Solar, the house bank recovers fairly quickly from normal cooking and we do use the outside BBQ quite a bit

It will do but the sun doesn't shine at night when cooking dinner
And is of little use at breakfast if doing anything then
But yes, with 840ah @24v I am hoping a Lectric cooktop will be looking better
But the oven is an issue,
Have not seen what we consider a "real" alternative to that yet.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

So similar to us, 8x220 @24v
2500w of solar
And hopefully will have LFP up and running in 3 weeks

It will do but the sun doesn't shine at night when cooking dinner
And is of little use at breakfast if doing anything then
But yes, with 840ah @24v I am hoping a Lectric cooktop will be looking better
But the oven is an issue,
Have not seen what we consider a "real" alternative to that yet.

Could always take the option of "well, the generator hasn't run in a week, exercise wouldn't hurt" if you decide to cook a particularly power hungry meal.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

So similar to us, 8x220 @24v
2500w of solar
And hopefully will have LFP up and running in 3 weeks

It will do but the sun doesn't shine at night when cooking dinner
And is of little use at breakfast if doing anything then
But yes, with 840ah @24v I am hoping a Lectric cooktop will be looking better
But the oven is an issue,
Have not seen what we consider a "real" alternative to that yet.

Our cooking habits are fairly simple and noon meal is the big one

light breakfast of fruit and porridge then chores
Noon Lunch is our main cooking meal, then playtime so lots of Solar makeup then
Dinner is light of Tea and something, Sushi or appetizers.

We have been using a 12L Turbo roast for all our baking and roasting needs for years . Packs down small and gives us the option to cook outside, which we prefer

Our 10Kw Gen is used whenever SOC gets to about 60%, but that is not a daily requirement.

Consumes about 2 liters per hour, so not a big dent in our sailboat's 2,400 liter capacity

[Simi 60]

^^^^^ that style wont work for us as they use bench space and lack internal space
Frittatas and pizzas cooked in cast iron pans and finished in the oven
Curries cooked in cast iron pot and finished in oven
Loaves of bread
Lasagne and more

The Breville variant may work as at least it's off bench in the space where the gas oven is but the internal measurements are even smaller than our gas oven.
Not buying yet another set of cookware for an even smaller oven

Would prefer to get back to a real sized oven that can take the cookware we have back at the dirt house.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Could always take the option of "well, the generator hasn't run in a week, exercise wouldn't hurt" if you decide to cook a particularly power hungry meal.

And if doing that I would get a proper household oven installed and put some load on that Genset.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

And if doing that I would get a proper household oven installed and put some load on that Genset.

Might as well. You've got the space and the genset for it.

[alti804]

Never store them in side your boat!!!! That is simple

[Pelagic]

For those with Gas Stove tops, I saw this product to improve efficiency and wondered if anyone had tried it?
http://www.marketblack.online/gas-saving-cover

[ikanode]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

For those with Gas Stove tops, I saw this product to improve efficiency and wondered if anyone had tried it?
Gas Saving Cover

Interesting: Amazon has something similar made of cast iron for $43.19

OSALADI Gas Stove Energy Saving Cover Gather Fire Energy-Saving Hood Windproof Stove Cover for Kitchen Fire Pit Covers (Black)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KD9H654...B35H5QC7K7FPD0

No reviews but I might give it a try...