Propane, the kiss of death

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

But, I’d rather be all-in with my cooking. If I’m going down this induction path, I’m going to use ONLY induction and will need to find a nice looking built in cooktop instead of a “hot plate” portable countertop type thing.

Certainly, it fits in my prime directive of boat design:

“Solutions that are lightweight, modular, off the shelf and easily and cheaply replaced”.

There are off the shelf induction cooktops meant to be built into a counter. Even 120 volt ones. For a cat or powerboat, it's easy enough. It's only a challenge on a monohull sailboat where you'd want a gimbaled stove.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Damn you guys!!! Always finding something new for me to waste money on!!

I’m sold! Ha ha ha.. . .

I would start with a NuWave countertop one and see how it works with your energy budget.


But to the question of fine control, you actually have two different controls -- one is the wattage, and the other is the temperature. So you have your choice of different "flames", but then besides that you regulate the temperature of the pan. It's very cool; I'm sure you will love it!

[rslifkin]

When it comes to gas stoves (propane or natural gas), people love to talk about how good the heat control is. But realistically, it's only true for really good gas stoves. The vast majority I've used (including the one currently in my kitchen at home) have horrid control valves and it seems like you don't really get variable heat over a wide range, you end up with narrow ranges of linear adjustment, then a jump in heat, etc. making it a pain to get the desired heat level.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

When it comes to gas stoves (propane or natural gas), people love to talk about how good the heat control is. But realistically, it's only true for really good gas stoves. The vast majority I've used (including the one currently in my kitchen at home) have horrid control valves and it seems like you don't really get variable heat over a wide range, you end up with narrow ranges of linear adjustment, then a jump in heat, etc. making it a pain to get the desired heat level.

This is true. They are very non-linear. It’s a pain to set the flame just right.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I would start with a NuWave countertop one and see how it works with your energy budget.


But to the question of fine control, you actually have two different controls -- one is the wattage, and the other is the temperature. So you have your choice of different "flames", but then besides that you regulate the temperature of the pan. It's very cool; I'm sure you will love it!

Question:

The only one I’ve used was not good because instead of changing the energy output to precisely control temperature, it turned on and off like an air conditioner or heater does. That was awful for cooking.

What’s your experience with ones that control energy output instead of switching on and off to control temperature? Do these exist?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Question:

The only one I’ve used was not good because instead of changing the energy output to precisely control temperature, it turned on and off like an air conditioner or heater does. That was awful for cooking.

What’s your experience with ones that control energy output instead of switching on and off to control temperature? Do these exist?

Standard electric stoves cycle, but many induction units will reduce power instead of cycling. Or at least they'll reduce power drastically, then cycle at the lower power if they can't reduce power enough. The lower the power is, the less noticeable the cycling (especially if it's controlled in a tight range and you're using a pan that holds some heat).

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by pcmm

"1,11,6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths of
tubing, piping or hose from the regulating device, solenoid
valve or leak detector to the appliance or to the flexible
section at the appliance"

The "continous..to the appliance" as no joints or fittings until you get to the appliance. the last bit to me indicates that the appliance should have be built in "flexible section" whatever that means.

Of course I could also be over simplifying too. No joints for me inside the boat except at the appliance. No extra joints to chase down and worry about. 1 simple certified hose in a protective conduit that I can pull and inspect at will!

Propane safety rules are interesting. There is a multitude of devices that can add to propane saftey:

Vented locker for storage
Remote shut of valve
Propane "fuse"
Gas detector or detectors
Pressure gauge
Bubble tester
Shut off valve before each appliance
Continuous copper pipe with no joints (other than a short flexible section)
Safety stickers
Conduits/ chafe protection
Frequent replacement of hoses/regulators etc
Frequent professional inspection and certification
All work carried out by licensed professionals.

I am sure there are many more.

It would be interesting to debate which of these steps are most effective. Some of them are mutually exclusive. Eg. A a shut off valve before each appliance is not compatible with a continuous copper pipe with no joints. Which one of these adds more to safety?

When this topic appears on a forum it is not unusual for members to quote the rules relevant to their particular country. "You must fit A, B and C" without realising that other jurisdictions mandate D, E and F.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Question:

The only one I’ve used was not good because instead of changing the energy output to precisely control temperature, it turned on and off like an air conditioner or heater does. That was awful for cooking.

What’s your experience with ones that control energy output instead of switching on and off to control temperature? Do these exist?

I recently got a nuwave, and love it. It is much nicer than cooking on gas. As fast or faster heating, and better temperature control. Something I have noticed is that the wattage isn't just what you select, but dependent on the size of pan. With a medium sized pan there is very little difference in consumption between 900W-1800W settings. 900W draws about 70A, and 1800W about 80A. But with a large pan, the consumption goes way up.

I don't notice any cycling. The unit doesn't turn off, just reduces power, and although I haven't checked it with a thermometer, seems to hold the temperature very well.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The vast majority I've used (including the one currently in my kitchen at home) have horrid control valves and it seems like you don't really get variable heat over a wide range, you end up with narrow ranges of linear adjustment, then a jump in heat, etc. making it a pain to get the desired heat level.

as opposed to what I call "the pot destroyer" electric burner. slow to heat up then gets too hot. so I usually turn it to high to get the pot hot. fine but if you wait too long you get a charred or ruined pot. give me gas any day of the week.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Standard electric stoves cycle, but many induction units will reduce power instead of cycling. Or at least they'll reduce power drastically, then cycle at the lower power if they can't reduce power enough. The lower the power is, the less noticeable the cycling (especially if it's controlled in a tight range and you're using a pan that holds some heat).

Ok. Cool. The one I used worked like this:

On medium or medium low, it would take a bit to start heating the pan (longer than gas) and then it would ramp up to almost burning the food, sending olive oil spattering all over, alarming you for 30 seconds, then it would seem to shut off for 30 seconds, then burn your food again for 30 seconds.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Ok. Cool. The one I used worked like this:

On medium or medium low, it would take a bit to start heating the pan (longer than gas) and then it would ramp up to almost burning the food, sending olive oil spattering all over, alarming you for 30 seconds, then it would seem to shut off for 30 seconds, then burn your food again for 30 seconds.

That's definitely a poor implementation. As bad as some of the worst coil electric stoves I've seen.

[Chotu]

Added safety bonus of induction:

Because you are cooking with high amps, you are forced to think a bit more about your electrical connections, checking for overheating, cleaning them because you’re worried about the high amp draw causing fires.

So... I know if I switch, I’ll be more in touch with my electrical system and that will help prevent the most common way boats are destroyed - electrical fires.

[Adelie]

My understanding of induction is that good implementations cycle on and off multiple times a second to throttle heat but when it’s on it’s full power.

[RaymondR]

Do Induction stoves have ovens and grills?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Do Induction stoves have ovens and grills?

Outside of full size ranges meant for a house, I don't know of any with an oven. But you can install a separate oven (or a microwave / convection oven combo) to go with the stove.