Propane, the kiss of death

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

Has anyone considered diesel?

https://boatingnz.co.nz/cooking-with-diesel/

We use diesel for cooking and hot water heating (coffee and showers) in colder conditions via our Reflex diesel heater.

It works well. The combination of diesel via the heater and solar via induction is a good synergistic mix. When solar production is very low the heater is likely to be running.

Propane is the final option we have. This is a good solution offshore in less than great solar conditions, as our power consumption rises when running all the sailing equipment (radar, autopilot etc), leaving less solar for the energy intensive cooking and water heating. It also covers those conditions where not much solar is available, but it is not cold enough to warrant a heater.

The multitude of options also provides valuable redundancy. They are all simple systems requiring little maintenance, so there are few drawbacks other than the cost of installation.

[Na Mara]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

Has anyone considered diesel?

https://boatingnz.co.nz/cooking-with-diesel/

I have very seriously considered this. It’s just such a logical choice for a boat with diesel inboard and for motor boats and catamarans it’s a no brainer imho. However, if you want to cook underway in a monohull safely then the oven and stove need to gimbal and no one makes a diesel stove and oven that gimbals. The problem is the exhausts for the units can’t cope with the gimbaling.

It’s such an attractive solution that I wrote to Wallas about the possibility of a gimbal king stove and they wrote back saying that one was in R and D and would be ready for this autumn when I am upgrading my gas system. Needless to say such a product is not ready.

The advantages are so great I have even wondered about doing without cooking under way and just heating water in a kettle off the inverter for hot freeze dried meals. But that is no way to live for a cruiser.

If there was a diesel stove that truly gimballed I’d buy it in a heartbeat, but as there isn’t one, and as I don’t have the generation capabilities for induction, I’ll be sticking with Propane

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

I have very seriously considered this. It’s just such a logical choice for a boat with diesel inboard and for motor boats and catamarans it’s a no brainer imho. However, if you want to cook underway in a monohull safely then the oven and stove need to gimbal and no one makes a diesel stove and oven that gimbals. The problem is the exhausts for the units can’t cope with the gimbaling.

It’s such an attractive solution that I wrote to Wallas about the possibility of a gimbal king stove and they wrote back saying that one was in R and D and would be ready for this autumn when I am upgrading my gas system. Needless to say such a product is not ready.

The advantages are so great I have even wondered about doing without cooking under way and just heating water in a kettle off the inverter for hot freeze dried meals. But that is no way to live for a cruiser.

If there was a diesel stove that truly gimballed I’d buy it in a heartbeat, but as there isn’t one, and as I don’t have the generation capabilities for induction, I’ll be sticking with Propane

One of the negatives of kerosene, and also diesel, was the need to preheat the burners in order to vaporize the fuel before one could ignite it. A little impatience could really set the smoke detectors off. They were fairly common before propane/butane displaced them in the pleasure vessel market.

[Chotu]

You can gimbal anything you want. Just make a box to hold the thing and put that box on a gimbal.

Originally Posted by Na Mara

I have very seriously considered this. It’s just such a logical choice for a boat with diesel inboard and for motor boats and catamarans it’s a no brainer imho. However, if you want to cook underway in a monohull safely then the oven and stove need to gimbal and no one makes a diesel stove and oven that gimbals. The problem is the exhausts for the units can’t cope with the gimbaling.

It’s such an attractive solution that I wrote to Wallas about the possibility of a gimbal king stove and they wrote back saying that one was in R and D and would be ready for this autumn when I am upgrading my gas system. Needless to say such a product is not ready.

The advantages are so great I have even wondered about doing without cooking under way and just heating water in a kettle off the inverter for hot freeze dried meals. But that is no way to live for a cruiser.

If there was a diesel stove that truly gimballed I’d buy it in a heartbeat, but as there isn’t one, and as I don’t have the generation capabilities for induction, I’ll be sticking with Propane

[Na Mara]

Originally Posted by Chotu

You can gimbal anything you want. Just make a box to hold the thing and put that box on a gimbal.

The problem, as stated above, is the exhaust flue. That has to fixed at one end and substantial enough to take very high temperatures. Having a stout tube attached to the back of a gimbaled stove that is securely afixed to the hull at the not so far end restricts gimbaling.

The wallas units electrically manage the ignition, warm up, cool down and shut off processes. These are not the diesel stoves of yore. That said, they still pump out substantial heat to the cabin so you need good ventilation in the tropics. Flip side is less humidity from cooking and a drier boat.

[malbert73]

Any idea why they stopped making Origo? I replaced my CNG system with an origo stove and like it a lot. Really easy and very safe. Only way I can see it being dangerous is if you don’t remove the burner to fill it and spill.

[hpeer]

I have a ships diesel cooker in my hunting cabin for winter heat and cooking.

But I have a 2 burner table top kero cooker for warmer months.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

The problem, as stated above, is the exhaust flue. That has to fixed at one end and substantial enough to take very high temperatures. Having a stout tube attached to the back of a gimbaled stove that is securely afixed to the hull at the not so far end restricts gimbaling.

The wallas units electrically manage the ignition, warm up, cool down and shut off processes. These are not the diesel stoves of yore. That said, they still pump out substantial heat to the cabin so you need good ventilation in the tropics. Flip side is less humidity from cooking and a drier boat.

Missed that. Sorry.


Maybe if you went straight up through the deck above the cooktop, you could use this type of thing. With lots of length, the right type may be quite flexible.




Or if not, they do make high temperature silicone you could use later in the exhaust system depending on the heat further down the pipe.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Incorrect ! I'll gldly send you a copy of ABYC propane standards if you like.

I will definitely defer to your experience as the surveyor but I read this section of the standards

"1,11,6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths of
tubing, piping or hose from the regulating device, solenoid
valve or leak detector to the appliance or to the flexible
section at the appliance"

The "continous..to the appliance" as no joints or fittings until you get to the appliance. the last bit to me indicates that the appliance should have be built in "flexible section" whatever that means.

Of course I could also be over simplifying too. No joints for me inside the boat except at the appliance. No extra joints to chase down and worry about. 1 simple certified hose in a protective conduit that I can pull and inspect at will!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by pcmm

I will definitely defer to your experience as the surveyor but I read this section of the standards

"1,11,6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths of
tubing, piping or hose from the regulating device, solenoid
valve or leak detector to the appliance or to the flexible
section at the appliance"

The last sentence is the important part due to gimballing and the ability to remove the appliance.

[mabowers]

Originally Posted by pcmm

I will definitely defer to your experience as the surveyor but I read this section of the standards

"1,11,6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths of
tubing, piping or hose from the regulating device, solenoid
valve or leak detector to the appliance or to the flexible
section at the appliance"

The "continous..to the appliance" as no joints or fittings until you get to the appliance. the last bit to me indicates that the appliance should have be built in "flexible section" whatever that means.

Of course I could also be over simplifying too. No joints for me inside the boat except at the appliance. No extra joints to chase down and worry about. 1 simple certified hose in a protective conduit that I can pull and inspect at will!

"1.11.2 A flexible section shall be used to allow the free swing of gimbaled stoves"

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

The ubiquity of propane/butane cooking appliances on pleasure vessels reflects it's practicability.

As is also the case with diesel engines.

The practicality of anything is dependent on a host of circumstances particular to the specific use and to the larger world.

Diesel and propane would not have been been practical fuels for anything in 1890, there was no infrastructure for their extraction, refinement and distribution. That changed.

Regardless of their practicality on a boat, the world at large is still changing and the availability of these fuels will change too.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Any idea why they stopped making Origo? I replaced my CNG system with an origo stove and like it a lot. Really easy and very safe. Only way I can see it being dangerous is if you don’t remove the burner to fill it and spill.

Check this thread:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ed-220131.html

I like my Origo too. For a small boat that may not have space for storing a propane tank easily and safely, and also may not be making long international voyages, it makes a lot of sense IMO and IME.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Adelie

It's not a simple choice or their wouldn't be a discussion would there.

There are a variety of induction stoves available that offer more than just 1-10 for heat settings. Nuwave offers hobs that let you pick the temp to the nearest 10F.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AV7JW2S...8-e3e7591428b7

Indeed. I guess Chotu hasn't cooked with induction! The control is MUCH finer than with gas, and more instantaneous. Cooking with it is a revelation.



Going from gas to induction is an experience quite a bit like going from the old electric resistance stoves to gas. Huge leap forward in fineness and responsiveness of control.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Indeed. I guess Chotu hasn't cooked with induction! The control is MUCH finer than with gas, and more instantaneous. Cooking with it is a revelation.



Going from gas to induction is an experience quite a bit like going from the old electric resistance stoves to gas. Huge leap forward in fineness and responsiveness of control.

Damn you guys!!! Always finding something new for me to waste money on!!

I’m sold! Ha ha ha.


But, I’d rather be all-in with my cooking. If I’m going down this induction path, I’m going to use ONLY induction and will need to find a nice looking built in cooktop instead of a “hot plate” portable countertop type thing.

Certainly, it fits in my prime directive of boat design:

“Solutions that are lightweight, modular, off the shelf and easily and cheaply replaced”.

Added bonus for me is the elimination of carbon monoxide from the galley as well as water vapor and extra heat above and beyond cooking.

I have 1500 watts solar, 3kw inverter, 400AH @12v batteries, 120A solar charge controller and 5kw generator power. Shouldn’t be much issue electrically.