Propane, the kiss of death

[hpeer]

Curious.

In NZ and AUS what are the installation requirements for alcohol or kerosene stoves?

And also for electrical systems?

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by David Ess

That's funny....and from a guy who doesnt know electric boats/hybrids already exist, and calls them 'unicorn boats'.

David - here's a tip: I've included links below - citations. If you click on them, they will direct you to the source-research. This is commonly used to support an opinion or assertion and avoid coming off as an arrogant, pompous ass:

I think I finally figured it out. If you own a commonly available electric boat, then you must own and cruise a Duffy!!!!

Pertaining to ubiquity of electric boats - they have indeed been around for a long, long time. They pre-date diesels. Interestingly, ELCO ("Electric Launch Company") is over 100 years old and obviously started as an electric motor company. However, they have several non-electric claims-to-fame: they built the first diesel-powered yacht in 1912, and were a major defense contractor in WWII including over 400 diesel-powered PT boats such as PT109 that prominently featured John F Kennedy.

QUESTION for you David: What kind of battery bank in your Duffy?

Peter

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by David Ess

When YOU say 'most' boats, you include tiny ones with only 12 volt and no inverters. When I say most boats I only mean cruiser boats, like 50-60'.

There are boats down to 20' cruising offshore (Flicka). The shortest to go around the world was 14' I believe. If your comments are aimed at people with 50-60' then you should state that in most of your posts since members with that size boat are a small fraction of the membership here, perhaps 10%, probably less.

Just out of curiosity, where do you draw the line between small and tiny?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

They exist, but in very small numbers and only cover a limited range of boating use cases at this point. So for many boaters (especially those on a limited budget), the fact that they exist is more of a novelty than anything relevant. That will change over time as the technology gets developed further, but we're not at that point yet.

And what use cases do you have in mind?

Medium and long distance cruising with no fixed schedule?

Funny thing is it seems like the folks on a very limited budget and the folks with significant money are the ones getting into Electric Propulsion and the folks in the middle are waiting it out.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Adelie

And what use cases do you have in mind?

Medium and long distance cruising with no fixed schedule?

Funny thing is it seems like the folks on a very limited budget and the folks with significant money are the ones getting into Electric Propulsion and the folks in the middle are waiting it out.

In a sailboat, yes, that use case works for electric. You lose the option to motor or motorsail long distances when the wind dies, but it's otherwise workable if you're not on a schedule. The other use case where it works well is lower speed, short range powerboats. Carrying enough battery to go fast or long distances under power becomes a problem, but if you can avoid that need, it works.

There's a guy in our marina with an electric propulsion sailboat. So far, he's happy with the conversion and doesn't mind operating within its limitations.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

In a sailboat, yes, that use case works for electric. You lose the option to motor or motorsail long distances when the wind dies, but it's otherwise workable if you're not on a schedule. The other use case where it works well is lower speed, short range powerboats. Carrying enough battery to go fast or long distances under power becomes a problem, but if you can avoid that need, it works.

There's a guy in our marina with an electric propulsion sailboat. So far, he's happy with the conversion and doesn't mind operating within its limitations.

This is the CruisersForum and and there is a strong argument that that is our use case.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Adelie

This is the CruisersForum and and there is a strong argument that that is our use case.

For many, yes. Although by the same token, if you use it so little, why spend money to rip out a functioning diesel and convert to electric? For those that use the engine enough to pay back the costs in reduced maintenance and fuel costs, they'd likely want more range than the current systems provide.

[Adelie]

I don't generally advocate ripping out a functioning ICE inboard.

I do advocate replacing a dead ICE with:
electric drive,
a gas outboard,
lots of batteries,
lots of solar
and an electric galley
and maybe a wind turbine for good measure.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

There's a guy in our marina with an electric propulsion sailboat. So far, he's happy with the conversion and doesn't mind operating within its limitations.

I think electric sailboat UMA who are at 78° N would question that idea of limitations.

If you are prepared to sail, have am efficient boat for light winds, live rather spartanly and wait for weather..... then the world is your solar/regen oyster

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think electric sailboat UMA who are at 78° N would question that idea of limitations.

If you are prepared to sail, have am efficient boat for light winds, live rather spartanly and wait for weather..... then the world is your solar/regen oyster

I think that all vessels work within limitations, it's just that a sailboat with a large diesel engine has become the default cruising vessel and people don't think of it as having limitations. It has limitations in range under power without refueling. If they are willing to motor at a slower speed that range increases dramatically.

EP vessels have a different set of limitations. Most EP vessels could have enough solar and batteries to have unlimited range under power at about 2kt (48nm/d).

Uma is functioning within her limitations and making adjustments to extend where she can comfortably go. Svalbard is an example.

[RaymondR]

The ubiquity of propane/butane cooking appliances on pleasure vessels reflects it's practicability.

As is also the case with diesel engines.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by gregorybross

I have a pvc canister I have mounted on the stern rail for storage of propane bottles.

How do you get them out?

[barryglewis]

In Aus not so easy to find a kerosene or spirit cooking stove. The main meths stove in Aus, Maxi, are no longer made.
A shame, we've used them on our last 3 boats.
Getting clean unadulterated meths overseas was a nightmare and by the time we were coming back from Tahiti to Bundaberg we were stripping down the burners weekly, and had gone through 3 sets of spare burners!
Would replace with Orego, but they aren't sold any more.
About to replace the stove with a to-be created gimbled cradle taking a single element induction hot plate. We bought in Queensland and tried it on the way back home. Provided we turned it down immediately after switching on, its worked fine for our sort of cooking (our inverter is 1500 Watts, running off 400 amp hr LIP Winston batteries)

[Mike Banks]

Has anyone considered diesel?

https://boatingnz.co.nz/cooking-with-diesel/

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

Has anyone considered diesel?

https://boatingnz.co.nz/cooking-with-diesel/

Cooked on diesel stoves on coastal tugs on the BC coast

One 120ft wooden Tug conversion to charter yacht cooked for 12 guests and 5 crew.

Great in the winter with lots of radiant heat but a sweat box in the summer time.

Cleaning Maintenance was high from soot buildup and could be tricky to regulate if drip carburetor and air mix got fouled.
I have seen the tops get red hot.
Most of the cooks had lots of burns, but they were a cosy spot in the winter, when it was kept on 24/7



https://youtu.be/ZVf4LNbQKlI