Propane, the kiss of death

[Bill Seal]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Every situation is different. Exxon Valdez took years. Economic impact is still felt I very tenuously.

I was being sarcastic, with the post I responded too. I do not believe propane would have much if anything to birds, might choke fish if bubbled up from the seabed. Wouldn’t last long.

I was referring to the fact that in the Huntington Beach leak, something, probobly a ship's anchor, bent the pipe and it developed a crack which started leaking, and oiled about 50 sea birds. (which gave every politician an excuse for some time in front of the TV cameras.)

[Adelie]

I know about the Huntington Beach leak, I live in San Diego.

I was being sarcastic about your comparison of a propane explosion on a cruising boat which might kill several people but little effect beyond the immediate vicinity and the family's of any casualties to an oil spill which didn't kill anybody yet but will widespread impact on sealife and probably some economic impact for a year or two for a large part of the area.

Apples to cumquats comparison. I have a weird sense of humor. Nevermind.

[skipperpete]

I’m surprised that doing your own gas system installation is permitted in the US, here in Australia a licensed gas fitter has to do the job and provide a compliance plate at the gas locker. This applies to caravans and camper vans as well as boats.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

I’m surprised that doing your own gas system installation is permitted in the US, here in Australia a licensed gas fitter has to do the job and provide a compliance plate at the gas locker. This applies to caravans and camper vans as well as boats.

Yes, different standards in different countries and I think Australia has one of the highest standards, which is great !

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Induction cooktop control board failure is very common and expensive to fix. How these appliances fair in a marine environment remains to be seen. Most cruisers struggle producing enough power for refrigeration. Induction cooktops need up to 1800 watts per burner.
For 2 burners on high that is 300 amps 12 volt that you will need to supply to an inverter. This amount of continuous amperage is dangerous. You would need a massive battery bank with massive cabling. This is a nice hypothetical chat but is simply not practical for most boats yet.

When YOU say 'most' boats, you include tiny ones with only 12 volt and no inverters. When I say most boats I only mean cruiser boats, like 50-60'.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by David Ess

When YOU say 'most' boats, you include tiny ones with only 12 volt and no inverters. When I say most boats I only mean cruiser boats, like 50-60'.

And what boat do you have? 12v? 24v? What type of inverter? Gas cooking or electric or induction? Power or Sail? Or are just looking and don't actually own a boat (along with others, is my strong hunch too)?

As they say in Texas "All hat. No cattle."

Peter

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by David Ess

When YOU say 'most' boats, you include tiny ones with only 12 volt and no inverters. When I say most boats I only mean cruiser boats, like 50-60'.

Plenty of cruising boats are smaller than 50 feet (both sail and power). And depending on age, desired equipment, etc. they may only have DC and shore power, no inverter. Yes, a 50+ foot brand new boat most likely has (or can easily have) the equipment to power electric cooking. But go back 30 years, or chop off 10 feet and it's not so clear cut. It can often still be done if desired, but it's no longer an easy-button item.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Plenty of cruising boats are smaller than 50 feet (both sail and power). And depending on age, desired equipment, etc. they may only have DC and shore power, no inverter. Yes, a 50+ foot brand new boat most likely has (or can easily have) the equipment to power electric cooking. But go back 30 years, or chop off 10 feet and it's not so clear cut. It can often still be done if desired, but it's no longer an easy-button item.

Many newbies and new entrants planning the cruising dream focus heavily on The Boat. Between YouTube channels, forums like this, and various books and magazines, it's easy for a pre-owner to feel educated on minimum equipment for cruising. Problem is they often define their boat with so many bells and whistles one of two things happen (or both): The Boat is too expensive so they must add years to their plan; or The Boat is so big and complex they are overwhelmed and cut-short their cruising dream.

Back in the early Trawlers & Trawlering Forum days, there was a guy who lived-on and cruised a Westsail 32 (sort of the reverse of me on this sail-focused forum). His signature-block included: "a small boat and a suitcase full of money beat a 40-footer tied to the Bank every time."

David Ess is an easy mark because he clearly has zero actual boating experience, knows the buzz-word/topics, yet despite the absence of practical experience, believes he has cracked-the-code on boats, and that his book-smarts is more accurate than those with actual experience. In a way, many of us started with some sort of flavor of this (though few raise the arrogance-bar quite so high). In my early days, the inspirations were not buff-body YouTuber's with curated channels but books by Tristan Jones, Adlard Coles, and Lyn/Larry Pardee. I learned a lot from them, but it was all foundational: I really needed practical experience to provide context. In a word, seamanship skills.

Peter

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Many newbies and new entrants planning the cruising dream focus heavily on The Boat. Between YouTube channels, forums like this, and various books and magazines, it's easy for a pre-owner to feel educated on minimum equipment for cruising. Problem is they often define their boat with so many bells and whistles one of two things happen (or both): The Boat is too expensive so they must add years to their plan; or The Boat is so big and complex they are overwhelmed and cut-short their cruising dream.

Back in the early Trawlers & Trawlering Forum days, there was a guy who lived-on and cruised a Westsail 32 (sort of the reverse of me on this sail-focused forum). His signature-block included: "a small boat and a suitcase full of money beat a 40-footer tied to the Bank every time."

David Ess is an easy mark because he clearly has zero actual boating experience, knows the buzz-word/topics, yet despite the absence of practical experience, believes he has cracked-the-code on boats, and that his book-smarts is more accurate than those with actual experience. In a way, many of us started with some sort of flavor of this (though few raise the arrogance-bar quite so high). In my early days, the inspirations were not buff-body YouTuber's with curated channels but books by Tristan Jones, Adlard Coles, and Lyn/Larry Pardee. I learned a lot from them, but it was all foundational: I really needed practical experience to provide context. In a word, seamanship skills.

Peter

That's funny....and from a guy who doesnt know electric boats/hybrids already exist, and calls them 'unicorn boats'.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by David Ess

That's funny....and from a guy who doesnt know electric boats/hybrids already exist, and calls them 'unicorn boats'.

They exist, but in very small numbers and only cover a limited range of boating use cases at this point. So for many boaters (especially those on a limited budget), the fact that they exist is more of a novelty than anything relevant. That will change over time as the technology gets developed further, but we're not at that point yet.

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

They exist, but in very small numbers and only cover a limited range of boating use cases at this point. So for many boaters (especially those on a limited budget), the fact that they exist is more of a novelty than anything relevant. That will change over time as the technology gets developed further, but we're not at that point yet.

Thanks for acknowledging that they exist. Range? Check an above message where the guy cruises all day on solar and all nite on battery. That some cant afford it is a different matter.

[double u]

"a small boat and a suitcase full of money beat a 40-footer tied to the Bank every time."
& a want to add:
a boat too small - this is inconvenient!
a boat to big - no cruise!

[double u]

...& on the "coconut milkrun" electric propulsion boats are indeed unicorns, pink unicorns!

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by David Ess

When YOU say 'most' boats, you include tiny ones with only 12 volt and no inverters. When I say most boats I only mean cruiser boats, like 50-60'.

Cruiser boats??? (are you 12 years old?) Mostly have not one but 2 diesel generators. Speaking of cruising, are you cruisin for a bruisin? Cause it seems like you are. This is a forum of seasoned sailors, knowledgeable experts, actual boat owners, past boat owners and future boat owners (which you appear to be none of). When I say most , I mean the type of boats that members of this forum talk about (DUH). While it is a free and open forum, it is and it isn't. As with anything in life if you want respect here you need to earn it (you are off to a bad start). I get a lot of guff here myself sometimes for my views but when I talk boats, I almost always get it right. If you keep jumping out from under the bridge like you do (so to speak), you gotta watch out for the big billy goats because we are out here and we don't like humanoid monsters hanging out under our bridges.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

They exist, but in very small numbers and only cover a limited range of boating use cases at this point. So for many boaters (especially those on a limited budget), the fact that they exist is more of a novelty than anything relevant. That will change over time as the technology gets developed further, but we're not at that point yet.

Indeed rare. Rare enough that a relatively common passage of 1400 nms is a record-breaking feat when it's done under electric/solar. The owners started planning 17-years ago. The trip took 38-days and they averaged 3.7 nm/hr. If that doesn't qualify as a unicorn, well, it will do until a better example comes along. And yes, they cooked with electricity. Apparently even had a waffle iron aboard.

https://www.passagemaker.com/lifesty...uise-to-alaska

David Ess - you may want to ping Trawler Forum as this topic generated considerable discussion (almost 150 posts as I recall).

Peter