Propane, the kiss of death

[Thumbs Up]

What is going to be the failure rate at 100% output?
Are inductions OK with modified sine wave?
You going to put Lithium batteries? How does affect the risk of fire?

[Adelie]

I don't want to run the inverter at 100%, that's why I recommend 4500W.

Some inductions are OK with Modifed, most aren't. I missed stating that caveat earlier.

I would use Trojan 6V solar FLAs probably in a 48v layout. I can get them at $140 each locally.

In part because it makes EG easier and in part because I want to try EP.

For me this is several years out.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

What is going to be the failure rate at 100% output?
Are inductions OK with modified sine wave?
You going to put Lithium batteries? How does affect the risk of fire?

My 1800 induction hob, like many, can display power settings in watts. I rarely run it on more than 1200w, and even only for short periods. 1200w will boil a quart of water in about 3 minutes. Most cooking is in the 300w to 600w range.

My trawler has a fairly large battery system (800w solar, 650ah LiFePO4, 3000w Magnum inverter/charger plus 225a Balmar). But I have a conversion van for camping with with much smaller system: 320w solar, 2 x 105ah LiFePO4 batteries, and a 1500w inverter. It supports the induction hot plate up to 1500w just fine (though some driving for alternator charging is needed).

Peter

[Bill Seal]

Back to the subject, ABYC seems to allow schedule K or L copper tubing. One kink and you have a propane version of the recent Long Beach oil spill.
Since the low pressure side is only about 1/2 psi, I'll stick to rubber hose with criped fittings.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Back to the subject, ABYC seems to allow schedule K or L copper tubing. One kink and you have a propane version of the recent Long Beach oil spill.
Since the low pressure side is only about 1/2 psi, I'll stick to rubber hose with criped fittings.

A new thread war topic! Ha ha. Copper or rubber for propane hoses?

I felt more safe with soft, pliable copper. You definitely don’t want to be changing its position after the install. I went with that after seeing some on a 35 year old boat still going strong and seeing it as hydraulic lines on hydraulic steering as well as for air conditioning lines.

You just have to practice your flare fitting skills a little bit before you do a propane system.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Back to the subject, ABYC seems to allow schedule K or L copper tubing. One kink and you have a propane version of the recent Long Beach oil spill.
Since the low pressure side is only about 1/2 psi, I'll stick to rubber hose with criped fittings.

I had no idea that propane could kill underwater sealife and tar the feathers of waterfowl. Learn something new every day.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Back to the subject, ABYC seems to allow schedule K or L copper tubing. One kink and you have a propane version of the recent Long Beach oil spill.
Since the low pressure side is only about 1/2 psi, I'll stick to rubber hose with criped fittings.

problem with copper is 2 items. It can't be used with marine stoves as it would prevent the stove from gimbaling. If you add a joint and a length of rubber tubing then you just violated the ABYC requirement for no joints except at the appliance itself! Just use certified hose in a conduit so that it can easily be removed and replaced once in a while!

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by pcmm

problem with copper is 2 items. It can't be used with marine stoves as it would prevent the stove from gimbaling. If you add a joint and a length of rubber tubing then you just violated the ABYC requirement for no joints except at the appliance itself! Just use certified hose in a conduit so that it can easily be removed and replaced once in a while!

Agreed gimbal and copper don't mix. But I'm sold on durability of copper. I just remodeled galley of my trawler and pulled out 50-year old copper that is in perfect condition. Copper is chafe resistant and doesn't become brittle over time. It's naturally chemical/hydrocarbon resistant, economical, easy to run, and the flare joints are durable for many, many years. Plus it's small diameter fits in tight chases. Lot to recommend.

Peter

[Bill Seal]

Originally Posted by Adelie

I had no idea that propane could kill underwater sealife and tar the feathers of waterfowl. Learn something new every day.

Putting the long beach spill of biblical proportions into perspective, the estimate is 120 THOUSAND gallons, a tanker ship holds 3 to 14 MILLION gallons. Certainly was a problem, but even though it was predicted to take GENERATIONS to clean the beaches, 10 days later they can detect no more oil. 50 years ago, tar balls used to be common on SoCal beaches, an none of us died from them. https://news.yahoo.com/orange-county...190038710.html

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by pcmm

problem with copper is 2 items. It can't be used with marine stoves as it would prevent the stove from gimbaling. If you add a joint and a length of rubber tubing then you just violated the ABYC requirement for no joints except at the appliance itself! Just use certified hose in a conduit so that it can easily be removed and replaced once in a while!

Incorrect ! I'll gldly send you a copy of ABYC propane standards if you like.

[boatpoker]

Apparently calling a spade a spade is not acceptable here.
Goodbye Cruisers forum.

[Thumbs Up]

Come on Boatpoker, don't leave. You can call a spade a spade (well actually not, got cancelled), but almost. Your suppose to make an innuendo. Passive aggressive soft influence sh*t. He might not realize that he is camping out under a bridge, so to speak, or he could be a hired instigator who knows? Remember the three billy goats gruff? What kind of giant humanoid monster was under that bridge?

Snip, snap, snout. This tale's told out. -three billy goats gruff

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Putting the long beach spill of biblical proportions into perspective, the estimate is 120 THOUSAND gallons, a tanker ship holds 3 to 14 MILLION gallons. Certainly was a problem, but even though it was predicted to take GENERATIONS to clean the beaches, 10 days later they can detect no more oil. 50 years ago, tar balls used to be common on SoCal beaches, an none of us died from them. https://news.yahoo.com/orange-county...190038710.html

Every situation is different. Exxon Valdez took years. Economic impact is still felt I very tenuously.

I was being sarcastic, with the post I responded too. I do not believe propane would have much if anything to birds, might choke fish if bubbled up from the seabed. Wouldn’t last long.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Apparently calling a spade a spade is not acceptable here.
Goodbye Cruisers forum.

Problem is that some call it a shovel in their country and may have different rules.

My propae installation was a long run of Cooper pipe inside a reinforced hose. Beautiful job.
By the stove it terminated in a hydraulic valve to a rubber hose for the stove.

Trying to run a far more complicated route due to the built in fridge/Freezer box in the Philippines, scared me.

All my hot/cold fresh water and hydraulic are copper and have worked great for 30years

[Thumbs Up]

The valve is the weak link. Copper pipe is great stuff but I might not trust what you end up paying for today, I am sure the old stuff was better and is inside a conduit. But it is not supposed to have any connectors on the way and I don't think the valve is supposed to be there. If only we had someone that knows these things on the forum, a boat surveyer or something. We could look up some outdated aybc stuff maybe get a clue.