Propane, the kiss of death

[Thumbs Up]

The explosion would more likely result in instant death, in which case, you might be better off, which could possibly arguable qualify as less dangerous depending on the endpoint of focus, hospitalization, or death.

Methane could be stored in a rubber bladder, wouldn't need to be compressed. Throw some fish parts and seaweed in with some turds. You only need less than .5 psi.

Small caveat:

The air pollution produced by biogas is similar to that of natural gas as when methane (a major constituent of biogas) is ignited for its usage as a energy source, Carbon dioxide is made as a product which is a greenhouse gas ( as described by this equation = CH4 + 2O2 →CO2 + 2H2O.) . The content of toxic hydrogen sulfide presents additional risks and has been responsible for serious accidents.[9] Leaks of unburned methane are an additional risk, because methane is a potent greenhouse gas.

For leak detection, you might not have to add any smell, it has it already.

[Chotu]

This one is relevant too. Don’t worry about whatever politics are in there. The facts are in there too. There is some issue with gas cooking indoors above and beyond the issues of smoke from cooking.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/07/10154...health-effects

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This one is relevant too. Don’t worry about whatever politics are in there. The facts are in there too. There is some issue with gas cooking indoors above and beyond the issues of smoke from cooking.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/07/10154...health-effects

Thanks for sharing.
It would be interesting to get NO2 levels for a boat with proportionally less volume and ventilation.

I think we all have discussed out the fire dangers of both gas and electricity but the quality of air inside was never really quantified as a Danger.

Dockhead brought it up as a great plus for Induction which I guess he would be more sensitive to, as he still uses both inside.

Personally, as a liveaboard, I could never go back to Gas simply because of how much cooler it is to cook in the tropics, but I guess if I had to, I would now look more to an outside gas cooking station, because of air concerns inside.

If I was a non live aboard, it would not be a concern

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Well, there's still always alcohol and kerosene!

+1 for kero.

I know folks hate it. But it makes a lot of sense to me. I find it quite nice.

And safe.

[Nicholson58]

To anyone using any combustible gas. Things can go boom.

We make a point of shutting off the valve at our propane bottle when it’s not in use.

We shut off the breaker and safety valves, switches when we are not using propane. Not good enough.

We learned in Trinidad that the 12 VDC fail safe gas valve can in fact fail. It blew 15# of propane out the vents into the parking lot next to Budget Marine. The main failure was the two regulator switching unit. We replaced it ALL! Thankfully there was no ignition. Turn off the tank valve!

I just yesterday had the valve on my Bernzomatic torch fail to close. Remove the tank when not in use!

The more stuff there is in line from the source, the greater the likelihood there will be a failure. Turn off the valve closest to the tank!

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

To anyone using any combustible gas. Things can go boom.

We make a point of shutting off the valve at our propane bottle when it’s not in use.

We shut off the breaker and safety valves, switches when we are not using propane. Not good enough.

We learned in Trinidad that the 12 VDC fail safe gas valve can in fact fail. It blew 15# of propane out the vents into the parking lot next to Budget Marine. The main failure was the two regulator switching unit. We replaced it ALL! Thankfully there was no ignition. Turn off the tank valve!

I just yesterday had the valve on my Bernzomatic torch fail to close. Remove the tank when not in use!

The more stuff there is in line from the source, the greater the likelihood there will be a failure. Turn off the valve closest to the tank!

Yep, that was burned (not literally) into me when I was quite young by an old salt when I sailed on his boat. When cooking was done I had to go out and shut off the tank, no matter what. I did not dare argue with him.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yep, that was burned (not literally) into me when I was quite young by an old salt when I sailed on his boat. When cooking was done I had to go out and shut off the tank, no matter what. I did not dare argue with him.

Yes, I was the same, even though I had a solenoid shut off.... was never comfortable unless the tank valve was manually closed.

Now my Propane tank underneath the BBQ table, does not have a solenoid

[double u]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that a propane explosion is far more dangerous than a fire ...

while thousands of boats (with many "amateurs" & bumblers on boards...) navigate happily with propain & no accidents (& our kerosene/paraffin stoves during our 3 rtws killed us in increments many times over...) denying propain the potential for catastrophy is the wrong way...

[Russian007]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I daresay plenty of people blown up in propane explosions have higher IQ than you or me.


It is a dangerous, arrogant assumption that an accident can't happen to me because I'm just so damned smart.

Glad someone said this. Thing about a boat is that there so many damn systems. I appreciate the multitasking, but most of us are prone to tunnel vision when adrenaline or fatigue factor in. For the record my stove is alcohol and engine is diesel.

[Russian007]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Then there were the 34 divers who died because too many lithium camera batteries were being charged below deck.

Final report did not establish this as cause of the fire.

[Bali43Cat]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

To anyone using any combustible gas. Things can go boom.

When I was a kid maybe 10 - 12 years old it was early one cold morning and I decided to light the fireplace in our home. At this particular time we didn't have very good kindling and for the past few days had been using common lighter fluid which worked pretty well to get things started.

Well we were out of that and, using 10 - 12 yr. old logic - went for the small can of butane used for refilling lighters. I took the tip off, pressed it up to the wood and was confounded why I couldn't see any liquid. So I really laid on the valve until white frosty liquid appeared on the wood - probably 5 seconds or so of fuel.

Reached for the match lit it, turned toward the fire place and BOOM - fireball completely enveloped me, knocked me backwards, singed my hair, and seriously freaked me out. It was a tremendous explosion with just a few seconds of gas.

Not sure what the energy difference is in butane/propane - but seeing first hand what 5 seconds of gas can do...can't imagine what a significant amount of propane from a cylinder could do.

We've went all electric in our Bali 4.8 and very happy about that decision after reflecting on this...

[BoatBumm]

I would like to suggest something I use to at least partially increase the safety factor for small propane bottles onboard. I’ve never trusted the built-in valves in the neck of those bottles. Especially after one has been attached to something then removed. The valves commonly don’t reseal well. You can buy solid brass safety caps on eBay for about $2 each, typically in quantities of 4 or 5 at a time. Once I started capping all my bottles, both brand new ones and ones I’ve used, it surprised me that often when I removed the caps there was pressurized propane being held back by the cap. The caps have held up fine in a salt air environment.

Sail safe!

[Seabeau]

I'll still take an old fashioned, non-pressurized alcohol stove, any day of the week over a propane stove. As previously mentioned, most people can out run a fire, an explosion, not so much.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by BoatBumm

I would like to suggest something I use to at least partially increase the safety factor for small propane bottles onboard. I’ve never trusted the built-in valves in the neck of those bottles. Especially after one has been attached to something then removed. The valves commonly don’t reseal well. You can buy solid brass safety caps on eBay for about $2 each, typically in quantities of 4 or 5 at a time. Once I started capping all my bottles, both brand new ones and ones I’ve used, it surprised me that often when I removed the caps there was pressurized propane being held back by the cap. The caps have held up fine in a salt air environment.

Sail safe!

Thanks, I have never seen these. Yes those canisters tend to leak at the built in valve.
https://www.amazon.com/Gimiton-Refil.../dp/B078N3ZYFV

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

I'll still take an old fashioned, non-pressurized alcohol stove, any day of the week over a propane stove. As previously mentioned, most people can out run a fire, an explosion, not so much.

From a BoatUS insurance article on cause of boat fires ...

"6) Stove 1% - Stove fires appear to be less common (1%) than in the past, probably due to fewer alcohol stoves being installed on new boats. Still, alcohol can be a dangerous fuel; though it can’t explode, an alcohol flame is hard to see. One fire was started when a member tried to light the stove and gave up because he couldn’t see the flame. Unfortunately, he had succeeded, but didn’t realize it until he got a call from the fire department. Only one fire was started by propane; a portable stove fell off a counter and ignited a cushion."

Perspective !
More people die every year in airplane crashes than die on exploding boats.