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Old 18-06-2020, 02:38   #1
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Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

recently finished a charter trip to USVI. two incidents where nothing bad happened but could have.

our mooring lines were short and could barely get around the cleats. thr starboard line was on first. port line i struggled having enough length, and the floating dock was secured right next to the cleat. i did not take a wrap around cleat before making the knot. around 1am someone on the boat woke up and noted boat sitting oddly compared to our neighbors. she got up and saw only one line was attached. the port line was off and starboard had about an inch left before it came undone.

I learned you need a wrap around base of cleat before making the knot. and a shorter line increases force on the knot.

second issue wasn't as bad as it was seen. we dropped anchor west of buck island st croix. looked sandy. backed up at 1800rpm and didn't move at all. fortunately we dove the anchor and saw this. barely hooked on a rock that was pulled out of a hole. we ended up moving 100y north to a true sandy bottom instead of a hard pack

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Old 18-06-2020, 03:26   #2
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Re: Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

That's a good reinforcement of an old lesson, eh? Always dive your anchor! (When you can.)

Another option with docklines (although it being a charter boat, I'll bet they were those horrid braided white plastic-y things, weren't they?), would have been to create a loop at the end using a bowline, put the loop through the bottom/centre of the cleat and adjust your docklines from your boat (in other words, the tie-off end on the boat rather than on shore).

It's another way docklines are fastened - especially in extreme tidal areas where you may need to get up in the night to adjust your docklines: if the tie-off end is on the boat, you won't have to step off the boat to make adjustments.

Thanks for sharing. These are the kinds of lessons one remembers - because they were borne of true experience.

Warmly,
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Old 26-10-2020, 13:27   #3
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Re: Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

A full turn around the bight of the cleat insures a hitch that can be undone after heavy stress.

We have seen several over the years that needed cutting tools.

In a pinch, anchor rode works, iif available.
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Old 26-10-2020, 21:45   #4
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Re: Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by nonav View Post
A full turn around the bight of the cleat insures a hitch that can be undone after heavy stress.
Depends on what you mean by a "full turn"

There are two schools of thought. The "O" and "C" versions.

The "O" version tends to be favoured by Brits and is taught by the RYA.
The "C" version seems more popular in the rest of the world

The difference in when you go over the top the first time - before or after going back around the first leg.

I consider the "O" version liable to jam if there is any vertical movement and surging involved and always teach the "C" version
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Old 26-10-2020, 21:52   #5
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Re: Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

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Originally Posted by Hoosierdoc View Post
I learned you need a wrap around base of cleat before making the knot. and a shorter line increases force on the knot.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by "the knot"
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Old 27-10-2020, 00:57   #6
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Re: Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Depends on what you mean by a "full turn"

There are two schools of thought. The "O" and "C" versions.

The "O" version tends to be favoured by Brits and is taught by the RYA.
The "C" version seems more popular in the rest of the world

The difference in when you go over the top the first time - before or after going back around the first leg.

I consider the "O" version liable to jam if there is any vertical movement and surging involved and always teach the "C" version

The other difference is that the diagram for the “C” version shows a cleat hitch whereas the diagram for the “O” version doesn’t.

The “O” version is also known as “OXO” as they’re the shapes you use to make it.
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Old 27-10-2020, 02:24   #7
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Re: Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Depends on what you mean by a "full turn"

There are two schools of thought. The "O" and "C" versions.

The "O" version tends to be favoured by Brits and is taught by the RYA.
The "C" version seems more popular in the rest of the world

The difference in when you go over the top the first time - before or after going back around the first leg.

I consider the "O" version liable to jam if there is any vertical movement and surging involved and always teach the "C" version

I don't know how that O version can be called a hitch. A wrap,maybe.
I thought a hitch requires at least one jam-ie: where the standing part(with the strain) is over (jamming) the bitter end./ Len


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Old 27-10-2020, 08:33   #8
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Re: Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

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I don't know how that O version can be called a hitch. A wrap,maybe.
I thought a hitch requires at least one jam-ie: where the standing part(with the strain) is over (jamming) the bitter end./ Len


This is how I was taught to tie up.
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Old 27-10-2020, 13:38   #9
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Re: Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

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Originally Posted by ChrisJHC View Post
The other difference is that the diagram for the “C” version shows a cleat hitch whereas the diagram for the “O” version doesn’t.

The “O” version is also known as “OXO” as they’re the shapes you use to make it.


“O” version can either be a wrap (OXO, as shown above), or a hitch (OXX, similar time the CXX shown above).

The “O” version can jam if the line is too big for the cleat. But if the cleat is relatively high then there is no issue with jamming. And it does remove the need to move the incoming line to the opposite horn.

Either “C” or “O” is fine and neither is “wrong”. Ultimately, we want a cleat hitch that doesn’t work its way lose as we surge back and forth on our mooring lines.
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Old 27-10-2020, 13:49   #10
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Re: Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

Not again....



Yes, it was like that for weeks.
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Old 27-10-2020, 13:55   #11
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Re: Poorly tied cleat hitch and tenuous anchor

You're pointing out that the end of the double-braid is nicely whipped, right?
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