Poor Seamanship - Anchoring

[cfarrar]

Curious about the shock loading, Dockhead. Just for our info, how long was the snubber between the hitch and the splice, and what diameter?

By the way, that's a good idea, using the dockline between the bow cleats. That might work for my snubber setup, too.

[rusky]

Great story. I said it earlier so please ignore if I am repeating/rambling.

I shackle the snubber to a spot below the roller. It uses a standard chain hook at the other end.

There is no friction on anything and therefore no chafe. I have a short 3 m snub line and a 6m longer one. I would use the longer one in 30kn +.

I think what you did displayed good seamanship. You did not end up on the rocks because you didn't forget something! You had a snub line part under chafe. Hindsight would see a reason and a solution. The analysis is good seamanship (aka common and safe sense)

regards
david

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Oops, Studland is a nice spot but not in a SE.

Easy to sit in an arm chair afterwards and make suggestions but there is a second "North" channel for the Needles fairway which runs along Hurst Spit. You still get clobbered by the tide past Hurst but its only a 100 yards rather than several miles of wind over tide. The only nearby safe spot I can think of is Black Gang Shine with that forecast. Its shingle and pebble bottom and we can normally get right in out of the tide, but then we float on damp grass.

How is the end of the chain attached to the yacht? ours has a piece of thin rope (for quick release) and a stainless steel clip held on to a bulkhead with a pair of tiny self tappers. I doubt it would even hold a runaway chain running out let alone the yacht. Something perhaps I need to look at this winter.

Pete

I don't have the excuse that I couldn't get any further. I use the North Channel and in fact that's how we came yesterday. Our engine was running fine and with 100 hp we can punch through even a sping tide in the Needles Channel. Furthermore, I could have easily gone into Poole. I just didn't feel like working up against the tide, I just felt like anchoring, and thus endangered the craft.

Yes, the runaway chain has been bothering me and now is really bothering me. It's attached to a hard point in the chain locker like yours -- with a thin cord which no doubt would snap in a second if the chain were running out, which possibly disastrous consequences.

Recommend we should all think about this! There should be some positive last ditch stop on the end of the chain, it seems to me. Something which can be undone in case of need, in case of need to jettison the chain.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Hi Dockhead.... lucky night huh...
Know that area well, you might have done better to pull into Poole and hung a left a coupla red bouys after the entrance and dropped the hook between Brownsea and Blood Alley... theres 5metres there and good holding.. if theres any east in the wind Studlands either uncomfortable or downright rough..
Alternativly take the north passage by Hurst Castle and let the tide help run you across to Totland Bay and then anchored in the shelter of the Isle of Wight..... but, alls well that ends well.

South Deep -- yes, would have been much better, or indeed Totland Bay.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by cfarrar

Curious about the shock loading, Dockhead. Just for our info, how long was the snubber between the hitch and the splice, and what diameter?

By the way, that's a good idea, using the dockline between the bow cleats. That might work for my snubber setup, too.

It was about 12mm, I guess, which was clearly too small for the boat. I have been meaning to upgrade it. About 6 meters long. Not enough to carry the shock loads from a bow plunging up and down in the swell.

[Eleven]

You and the boat survived. That's good seamanshio.
And you've come clean about it which helps you to decide on future precautions.
Remember the thread about tropical storms, many lines that parted there were of the plastic variety, they melted from the energy put into them (overheated and softened).
My anchor chain had no fixing when I bought the boat. It is now tied to a big eyebolt in a solid bulkhead. Not sure it would survive that sort of treatment but at least I'd know about it.
I also deploy a second light anchor, often off the stern. The rope can be lead into the saloon and tied to my ankle (or a couple of saucepans). Any dragging just might wake me up. Useful technique too when run aground. Lets you know when the boat starts moving, even just swinging.
Certainly in those circumstances I'd have put my second big anchor out, on a different strong rope, with extra slack, just in case the first system dragged or failed, or swinging loosened the bite of the primary one. Especially usefull if the primary anchor won't release.
On my 'run aground on a lee shore' I spent an hour on the bows, getting frequently drenched, once or twice in solid water. I didn't feel the cold at the time, it was a sunny afternoon, but I should have had a harnessed life vest ON and strap available before I went forward. Did you? I didn't need it, cats are more kindly that way, but it's not a good idea to go body surfing on your own decks.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, the runaway chain has been bothering me and now is really bothering me. It's attached -- with a thin cord which no doubt would snap .

Perhpas get a longer thin cord that can be easily cut and pass it through a shackle on the end of your chain and through a shackle or ring etc on you solid point. Pass it through many times so that although its thin it is as strong as your chain.

If you need to cut it away its easy But it hopefully will stop a runaway chain

Mark

[cliffdykes]

I'm planning to use one of Colligo Marine's soft shackles to secure my bitter end to the newly installed eye bolt in my anchor locker.
Not cheap but worth the investment I think.

Cheers
Cliff

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Perhpas get a longer thin cord that can be easily cut and pass it through a shackle on the end of your chain and through a shackle or ring etc on you solid point. Pass it through many times so that although its thin it is as strong as your chain.

If you need to cut it away its easy But it hopefully will stop a runaway chain

Mark

That's a very good idea. Maybe Dyneema, eh? A few loops of that will be as strong as the chain.

I'm afraid the strong point may not be up to it. It's a ring in the chain locker attached to the bulkhead with a through-bolt. But I don't think it would be a whole lot of trouble to put in a backing plate to make a stronger strong point.

And a chain stopper, well secured.

[rusky]

Originally Posted by cliffdykes

I'm planning to use one of Colligo Marine's soft shackles to secure my bitter end to the newly installed eye bolt in my anchor locker.
Not cheap but worth the investment I think.

Cheers
Cliff

Hi Cliff

I think I prefer to have a line attached to the bitter end of the chain solely on order to cut away if needed. Needs to be tough enough to hold -

I have 80m on one anchor and 68 on the other - and can join if necessary - both with 16mm dbl braid long enough to reach the deck, just before the gypsy. - Its all theory so far - never needed to 'lose' a chain but know someone who has - half way from Fiji to Brisbane

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rusky

I shackle the snubber to a spot below the roller. It uses a standard chain hook at the other end.

There is no friction on anything and therefore no chafe. I have a short 3 m snub line and a 6m longer one. I would use the longer one in 30kn +.


regards
david

That's a great setup. Not practical for my case -- I'm just not going to start drilling holes in my stem -- but if you've got it then you've got a perfect setup.

Another advantage you have is that the vector of force from your snubber will be applied lower down. A lot of stress resulted -- I was feeling it and thinking about it all night -- from the fact that the chain pulling tight against the snubber tries to pull the bow down, and maybe just at the moment when the bow is being lifted by a swell.

I've had an idea to improve chafe resistance of my snubber, short of making swiss cheese out of my stem:

Make a bridle of stainless steel cable with two loops to slip over either bow cleat.

Steel cable goes over the bronze bow roller (the spare one) and terminates in an eye and a shackle. The snubber, a heavy three-strand nylon job, is shackled to that via an eye splice. And is rolling-hitched to the chain six meters or so further down.

That way, the nylon doesn't touch anything, and all the chafe is taken care of by steel cable running smoothly over the bronze bow roller.

How about that?

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...I've had an idea to improve chafe resistance of my snubber, short of making swiss cheese out of my stem:

Make a bridle of stainless steel cable with two loops to slip over either bow cleat.

Steel cable goes over the bronze bow roller (the spare one) and terminates in an eye and a shackle. The snubber, a heavy three-strand nylon job, is shackled to that via an eye splice. And is rolling-hitched to the chain six meters or so further down.

That way, the nylon doesn't touch anything, and all the chafe is taken care of by steel cable running smoothly over the bronze bow roller.

How about that?

I don't think I could stand the grinding of the steel cable against the bronze--wouldn't it be like sitting in a dentist's chair for hours?

Simple chafe protection works pretty well with nylon or polyester line. My boat rode out these breaking swells for 10-12 hours with 5/8" double braid polyester wrapped in an old towel where it went over the anchor roller. I had a second one rigged in reserve, a bit slack, but the first held just fine. I was on a mooring, but it would seem that the same would apply to a snubber on an anchor chain.

[MarkJ]

Not that this thread would have had anything to do with it but I just decided to go and give my kit a once over and found a new way to make sure the chain-stopper on the windlass works correctly... and I put some chafe guard on... and checked the snubber........ Can I go back to doing nothing now?

[boatman61]

I only use chain on my boats... don't trust rope except on the Kedge...
After attatching the snub rope and feeding out the required length of chain to sag into the water I then attatch another two lines (hook onto chain) on deck just aft of the roller which I tie off onto port and stbd deck cleats... if the snubber breaks these then take the load and give me time to get forward and figure my options...
I do this only in 'extreme' circumstances though... 95% of the time its just the snubber of line and hook...

[MarkJ]

Great photo, Hud!

The dink is on the back, but you were not on the boat were you?